Is lack of training killing tractor operators?

[plowhog]

Lots of ways to think about safety training. You can count and measure the number of trained people who complain after training that something was not covered. But you can't count on how many accidents never occurred because the operator had the knowledge to avoid it.

I don't think individual dealership training, in most cases, is feasible. None of my pilot training was done by Beechcraft, Cessna, or Piper even though I owned airplanes they manufactured. None of my firearms training was done by the manufacturer of the firearm I was shooting. None of my motorcycle rider safety training was done by a motorcycle manufacturer. And so the list goes on.

Typically, a company engaging in safety training for a chosen industry is not aligned with any single brand. It narrows their potential market too much. And the expanded reach across many manufacturers tends to promote a good two way discussion. Students learn something, and instructors as well.

 

[timswi]

I remember someone telling me when I was just starting out, "You have to learn from the mistakes of others too, because you won't live long enough to make all the mistakes by yourself." I've never had formal training for operating a tractor, a front end loader, a dump truck, or any other piece of equipment I've operated. I learned by watching others and applying a little common sense. Nobody needed to tell me that putting the loader bucket up in the air and making sharp turns wasn't a good idea. It is just common sense. A common saying among the people I used to work with was "You have to be smarter than what you are operating."

That's pretty much it..Well said :drink:

 

[plowhog]

To be clear, I think their should be NOTHING of ANY sort. Let Darwin work his magic and thin the herd.

I have enjoyed learning different perspectives on this topic. Not sure I am preaching or advocating anything, because I haven't formed any specific or final opinions while still learning other perspectives. One thing I have communicated is how differently this industry seems compared to others I have experienced.

But, one thing I cannot support is to advocate thinning the herd through Darwinism. It's often the children, or innocents, who pay that price. I have good friends who live near this recent tractor accident site where a 7-year old boy was killed. Dad was showing him how it was done .... tragic.

Community mourns 7 year-old killed in tractor accident

 

[nalle]

Well haven't read each response, but being in the Process of soon getting our first Tractor I though I can give my thoughts on this.
Agree some learning is a good thing and everyone is diffrent one Kid was been on the Tractor for 10 years when they turn 18 and others early know what a Tractor is.
Common Sense now a days, is not as common. Just like respect, kindness, help-fullness and Manners.
More Regulation won't solve anything. But it would be Great to have a Manufactures have Safety Videos, how to Operate each Function on the Tractor and what can happen. This way people can maybe understand what will happen, when .......
Some would watch and learn, other would disregard and know better. Can't help them all.

Regulations/Guidelines for Vehicles is very LAX in this country. Which is Scary, some States 14 Year old can drive, can't have a Beer or Smoke, but Drive 1000's of pounds of Metal down the road at 50/60/70+ mph. Or on the Flip side at some point, you just have to stop. If you been to FL, you will see the Old Generation, that early can walk with Oxygan Mask on driven that small (45 foot + Vehicle in tow) lightweight (45.000 - 60.000 pound) RV down Main Street. No disrespect to either Young or old, but at some point you have to realize your Limits and let other's help you.

 

[BrokenTrack]

I stopped at a tractor safety booth at a farm days type of event (that is where the tractor safety demonstrations are by the way), and it was almost scary. The woman doing the presentation just happened to be using a Kubota tractor that I own and was pointing out some safety faults of it. Of about 8 things she pointed out that were wrong, I countered and showed her where there was a hand grab here, a way to make the stance wider, lowering the center of gravity, on about 4 of them. In short the woman doing the presentation was not as knowledgeable as she thought and should not have been doing the demonstration.


This is not the first time I have had this issue...

One year I worked with a guy that really needed help learning how to file his chainsaw, No problem, we all learned at some point, so i showed him. 3 years later i am going through the forestry part of a local agricultural fair and this same guy is the Forestry Coordinator! I have nothing against those with passion, but there is no way a person can go from novice to expert in 3 years, but the reality is people like myself who have farmed and logged for 43 years, are just too busy to volunteer in this capacity...we are too busy doing and lack time to teach unfortunately!

If a person really wants to know tractor safety, ask a neighbor who is a farmer or well versed on tractors; they will cut a few hours out of a day to give you pointers. If you do not know of one, the dealer can probably point you to a guy, or do so themselves. Asking is the hard part.

 

[Gary Fowler]

I stopped at a tractor safety booth at a farm days type of event (that is where the tractor safety demonstrations are by the way), and it was almost scary. The woman doing the presentation just happened to be using a Kubota tractor that I own and was pointing out some safety faults of it. Of about 8 things she pointed out that were wrong, I countered and showed her where there was a hand grab here, a way to make the stance wider, lowering the center of gravity, on about 4 of them. In short the woman doing the presentation was not as knowledgeable as she thought and should not have been doing the demonstration.


This is not the first time I have had this issue...

This is not uncommon in industry. I have seen dozens of "safety" coordinator/ inspectors/ police whatever you wish to call them come from inexperienced staff. Many first time "Safety Man" persons were new to the workforce helper type who only knew safety from a little reading or tutoring by a manager type person and then turned loose on the job to monitor the workers for safe practices. Sometimes it worked, sometimes not but they met the OSHA requirement of having a "safety inspector" on staff.

I suppose anything is better than nothing AND they eventually become proficient or at least semi-proficient at their jobs.

 

[2ndhalf]

When I read the OPs first post I completely related as I think there is a lot of uneducated tractor owners. I can't even say I probably know everything there is about their dangers. I have tried to educate myself but honestly feel like I learn something new all the time; often from this site and reading what others have done.

There isn't a poster on here incapable of making a mistake or forgetting or yada yada. The most serious accident I know of personally was a relative of my wife who while trying to trim a tree out of a tractor bucket fell and broke his back. Paralyzed from waist down at 50ish years old. He "was" a farmer around tractors all his life. Tried to use it outside it's limits without proper equipment.

I also agree that it is often the kids who suffer from stupid parents. I saw a guy hauling his kids around his yard in the front bucket of his tractor like it was a carnival ride. There is a darwin award to be gained but who paid the price for that one. I think it would be nice if there was better training out there that was comprehensive but not mandated. I'm tired of things being mandated too.

Here is a Link from AGCO on Loader safety AGCO Academy: Tractor Best Practices (2 of 2) - YouTube

It does not go nearly far enough to educate people. This is my problem with most safety videos they tell things that most people with half a brain would know.

 

[CobyRupert]

I have tried to educate myself but honestly feel like I learn something new all the time; often from this site and reading what others have done.

There isn't a poster on here incapable of making a mistake or forgetting or yada yada.

Yep, just the other day I was trying to pull what should of been an easy tree through somewhat deep snow. Because of its location, I had to pull from the tree’s top end , not the best, but still should be easy.
What I didn’t realize was that because the tree had a wicked crook about 10’ away from where I chained to it, and the way it laid, that this elbow acted like the pivot point / fulcrum for the whole 50’ + tree. That only about 2’ of the tree was touching the ground and digging one **** of a trench. Probably 40’ of the trunk end wasn’t even touching the ground. Not that I could see what what was happing in the snow or under the tree.
When this “Log plow” brought the tractor to a stop, I figured it was because I didn’t have my logging winch high enough out of the snow or maybe I caught the winch plate on a hidden stump. Reflexively I raised the 3pth higher. Bad idea.
I should of (and do) know better. It takes about 1/2 a second for the front wheels to pop up way higher than you want when you’ve hooked on above the center of gravity to an object that doesn’t want to move. Another 1/2 of a second and it would of been bad.
This was a case of knowing the dangers, but misdiagnosing the situation ( thinking that my problem was deep snow or bad traction ) and not realizing how some freak thing like a crook in the tree can align to become a plow and make it pull 10x harder.

 

[CincyFlyer]

You are a pilot and do not understand CG ?

As a pilot, we only deal with longitudinal center of gravity, essentially "balance point". Whether the load is high or low (not that you can have it that much either way) is not taken into consideration. Also, there's a chart in the aircraft owner's handbook, so you just "plug in the numbers" and if you are OK, you fly.