Ruts in concrete on Interstate Highway

[goeduck]

I think that chain use on the semi truck & trailers has become more common these days, even on the trailers.

Agree if it is the truck lane only that has serious ruts. Studded tire impact, if any, from cars would be somewhat more uniform across lanes.

Chain up of trucks is common and required out here on the mountain passes.

 

[Rock knocker]

You can find any study you wish for a great many times a study is written and biased to what the requester wants. People that live in snow belt areas and seem to think that they are entitled to clean snow and ice free roads thru the use of millions of tons of corrosive melting chemicals instead of using there equipment and options to get around. Idiots with $1000's of dollars worth of skis on their fancy city awd's with worn out all season tires going to a ski area and crying that the road was snowy and it's not their fault they are stuck and blocking traffic, it's snow country use snow tires with studs and learn how to drive. I will guaranty that studded tires will out pull any non studded tire on ice or hard wet packed snow, I have driven too many roads in inclement weather for too many years, the advent of good studded radials reduced the need to chain up tremendously.

That answer has nothing to due with disclaiming that studded tires damage road surfaces.

 

[LouNY]

That answer has nothing to due with disclaiming that studded tires damage road surfaces.

You can find any study you wish for a great many times a study is written and biased to what the requester wants

 

[California]

I travel over Donner Summit (I-80) between Nevada and California pretty frequently.

This section was entirely refurbished a few years ago. I watched the concrete pour and it seemed like about 14 inches thick with lots of rebar. Now, a few years later, I am seeing ruts in the concrete in the truck lane.

The ruts are so bad I can't use that lane when towing a trailer. The trailer wheels are a little wider than my truck, so if truck wheels are tracking the ruts then the trailer is not-- making it wander around.

I don't ever remember seeing ruts in concrete. Is this possibly a bad mix of concrete that has caused this?

View attachment 529748

It was worn that bad or worse before the resurfacing about 10 years ago. I think the intended design life for the surface is only 20 years and it was well past that.

Apparently trucks even without chains will eventually cause damage like that. 100 miles west of the summit over in the flat Central Valley, I-80 looked nearly that bad in stretches between Sacramento and San Francisco before repairs a few years ago. That project is nearly finished but there are spots where water got under the pavement and the sub-base got pumped out by individual roadway panels breaking loose and rocking, as trucks went over them. I drive that nearly weekly between home/ranch and see the crews who set in new panels still have their equipment staged ready for overnight work.

Re my incorrect statement that studs aren't legal in California: I was misinformed. Here's the actual rule:

Caltrans - Chain requirements:

If I have studded snow tires, do I need to carry chains?

Yes. Studded snow tires are not considered tire traction devices and may not be used in lieu of chains.

 

[Furu]

You can find any study you wish for a great many times a study is written and biased to what the requester wants

Did you read the study that was referenced? I mean fully read it not scanned it.
While your statement is commonly very accurate,this time you are way off base.


Add -on
I just went and did a google search on studded tires and road damage. I found no less than 14 articles authored by different US states and countries around the world that showed proof of the damage that studded tires do to the road surfaces. They do say that they can not exactly quantify the share of damage on asphalt but on concrete roads they can. The reason asphalt is more difficult is that there are two other factors that keep the exact quantification from being determined.
I am not saying that they should be banned but to deny they do damage is like denying that the earth is round or that we actually landed on the moon in 1969.

Yes there are folks that deny the round earth and moon landing but there is no evidence to the contrary.
Yes in some studies there are conflicting pieces of evidence or theories and models that may not be 100% accurate others that is not true.

 

[fried1765]

Did you read the study that was referenced? I mean fully read it not scanned it.
While your statement is commonly very accurate,this time you are way off base.


Add -on
I just went and did a google search on studded tires and road damage. I found no less than 14 articles authored by different US states and countries around the world that showed proof of the damage that studded tires do to the road surfaces. They do say that they can not exactly quantify the share of damage on asphalt but on concrete roads they can. The reason asphalt is more difficult is that there are two other factors that keep the exact quantification from being determined.
I am not saying that they should be banned but to deny they do damage is like denying that the earth is round or that we actually landed on the moon in 1969.

Yes there are folks that deny the round earth and moon landing but there is no evidence to the contrary.
Yes in some studies there are conflicting pieces of evidence or theories and models that may not be 100% accurate others that is not true.

Studded tires DO damage to road surfaces!
To deny that is to deny factual research.
Many states, and Canadian provinces, have seasonal limitations for studded tire use.
Why?
To minimize highway damage!

 

[3930dave]

Most tires on passenger cars say "M + S" on the sidewall. Mud & Snow. You actually have to try to get
so-called "summer" tires, as most say "M + S". My pickup tires are "all-terrain", but are intended as
all-around tires. I once had "mud-terrain" tires on a pickup (loud!).

What are the cops looking for on the sidewall for tires to comply with that Canadian law?

Don't know the criteria for Quebec, but the modern symbol seems to be the Peak/Snowflake symbol. (Edit - per tirerack, looks like that is what Quebec recognizes).

Test specs.... we should all be from Missouri...... backstory below:

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=125

So, while M+S was more about marketing (zero test requirements), Peak/Snowflake (supposedly severe service) only has to pass one particular test. Walk first, run later ?

If I'm considering tires, I usually read as many reviews I can find, looking for similar vehicles/road conditions/driving styles.

I wish we had the legal option to use studs here. With the "cost optimized" road servicing we have, studs can make the difference between getting there, or ending up in a ditch, or not.

Canadian Police Chase Fail - YouTube

Rgds, D.

 

[Furu]

Did you read the study that was referenced? I mean fully read it not scanned it.
While your statement is commonly very accurate,this time you are way off base.


Add -on
I just went and did a google search on studded tires and road damage. I found no less than 14 articles authored by different US states and countries around the world that showed proof of the damage that studded tires do to the road surfaces. They do say that they can not exactly quantify the share of damage on asphalt but on concrete roads they can. The reason asphalt is more difficult is that there are two other factors that keep the exact quantification from being determined.
I am not saying that they should be banned but to deny they do damage is like denying that the earth is round or that we actually landed on the moon in 1969.

Yes there are folks that deny the round earth and moon landing but there is no evidence to the contrary.
Yes in some studies there are conflicting pieces of evidence or theories and models that may not be 100% accurate others that is not true.

Studded tires DO damage to road surfaces!
To deny that is to deny factual research.
Many states, and Canadian provinces, have seasonal limitations for studded tire use.
Why?
To minimize highway damage!

The way you quoted my post and then replied I am not sure what you meant to communicate but it seemed like you were calling my post out.
Whatever you meant to communicate, I am in 100% agreement with your statement.

 

[California]

Donner summit is over 7,000 ft elevation and the latitude is about equal to NYC. Weather can get harsh. Linked just now [end of thanksgiving weekend] from Google news:

get off the slopes and head down the hill by about 3 p.m. or risk being stuck in a snowstorm for 6-8 hours, said National Weather Service.

"The storm is moving in, we have high wind warnings in effect for most of eastern California and western Nevada, with the possibility of 6 to 12 inches at Donner Pass on I-80 and Echo Summit on Highway 50".

Both passes are above 7,000 feet, and by around 4 p.m. when the sun begins to set, the snow level will come down, "accumulating snow and strong winds are going to be a problem for anyone coming over the passes, Hoon said. "with increased traffic over the holiday weekend, and with just six inches of snow, it could take 6-8 hours to get over the passes .. because the snow plows are out and everybody's driving slow in inclement weather.

Well everybody's driving slow except the Suburbans, Land Cruisers, and BMW's that you later see spun off into a snowbank a few miles down the curving grades.

 

[Rock knocker]

You can find any study you wish for a great many times a study is written and biased to what the requester wants

Can you post a link that shows that studded tires are blameless for road damage? Did you read the study I posted (I doubt that you would, but I'm asking to be polite)? What do you object to their methodology that would make you think that the study by WashDOT was gamed?

I'll await your knowledgeable response.