New tractor,, Kioti vs Kubota

[chap]

So many variables........both are very nice machines. I did a lot of research......
The Kioti was my choice. More standard features included on the Kioti that are costly to add to the Kubota. I did go a size bigger as the 3510 cab is fairly small. I chose the NX 4510 and haven稚 regretted it one single second. Bigger frame size, bigger tires, much nicer cab, more power and weight, etc. I ran a front feed for my snow blade swivel from the rear remote and it works beautifully. From price shopping both, the Kioti was about $7-8K less than the Kubota when all the options were included. Good luck with your decision.

 

[cowbridge]

Good question.. I'm not sure which way they quoted it. I would guess it was priced for the electric diverter off the FEL. Is it better to run a rear remote to the FEL?

 

[N2DFire]

I think a backhoe will tear that thing apart. Think twice before buying one. I have a CK2610 (same frame) and it's not built for backhoe work unless maybe you are lifting wood chunks onto the splitter deck.

Most likely you could find a well used mini X for the same money that you can beat the crap out of like it's supposed to be used.

Most guys with 3 point backhoes regret buying later on.

Regards, Fred

I agree up to a point. 3pt backhoes are notorious for being rough on small tractors but generally it's because people are trying to use them like large dedicated backhoes and they're not.

My suggestion would be to:
1) Really think long and hard about what you plan to do and decided if owning your own backhoe vs renting one for a short time would be the better option.
2) If you still want a backhoe then I would highly suggest going with sub-frame mounted model instead of a 3pt one (and still remember it's not the same as an industrial backhoe or Mini X)

Good question.. I'm not sure which way they quoted it. I would guess it was priced for the electric diverter off the FEL. Is it better to run a rear remote to the FEL?

That is the million dollar question of the ages.
You have 3 basic options to get hydraulics to the front of your tractor for a grapple or other implement
"3rd function" (which will never really be a *true* 3rd function on tractors this size)
Diverter
And longer hoses to existing rear remotes

The choice really boils down to 2 main factors - Comfort & Budget. What method "feels right" to you & what can you afford.

There are reams of information here and discussions on each type & the pros/cons so I'm just going to try to give a very simple highlights version.

3rd function will operate electrically from a rocker switch (or two independent buttons) mounted to the FEL control knob. One button / direction is open, the other is close. The actual valve is installed in series in your existing hydraulic system, typically between the loader valve and your rear remotes or 3pt system (depending on tractor set-up)

Right now the average price for a "turn key" system will be about $800 from a dealer, If you feel adventurous, you can probably source and build your own for 2/3 to 1/2 depending on how fancy you get. There is likewise a ton of information here to help you.

Diverter - think of it as a simple Y (in actuality it's more complex but it illustrates a concept). It is electrically operated by a single button either On or Off. Off the fluid flow takes it's "normal" path thru one branch of the Y and On it is "diverted" to the other branch for as long as you hold the button down. The diverter is installed between the loader valve and one of the existing functions (Curl/Dump is the most often used however some have used the Lift/Lower instead) and the control is provided by the existing loader valve / joystick. So in the curl/dump circuit - button off the stick moves the bucket like normal, Button on & the same motion of the stick is now opening / closing the grapple instead.

Again, turn key you're probably looking at about half the cost of a 3rd function & likewise if you chose to build it yourself you could get away much cheaper.

Lastly using existing rear remotes. In this case you simply have a set of long hoses that reach from front to back and plug into a set of your rear remotes and you would open/close the grapple by operating the rear remote control lever as normal, the downside is now you're moving between the loader joystick & the rear remote. Some folks have fabricated an extended lever on the remote to bring it into a better position.

This will be the cheapest of all options and one you could easily do yourself.

Again this is just a majorly simplified overview and I would urge you to do some searches here and read other threads on the subject before you made a decision.

 

[dodge man]

I don't know about Kioti, but Kubota has a subframe for their backhoes so it won't tear the tractor apart. I suspect Kioti is the same way. Some backhoes are setup for use with a cab, it depends. On some of them you sit outside the cab to run the backhoe, you would have to check on the specific model. The only time I wish I had a cab is when its really cold out for snow removal. If I did hours of mowing in the summer, it would be nice but I mow my yard in less than two hours usually.

 

[terryknight]

n2dfire did a good job describing the options. I have used the rear remotes because I am cheap. on my JD it is very easy and comfortable to use the rear remote. on this b series the location of the valve is not convenient or comfortable, but it is doable, and since i don't plan on using it much, it's not a big deal.

 

[cowbridge]

Thanks N2Dfire, well explained. The rear remote levers are not easily accessible on either machine in my opinion. The electric switch on the joystick seems like the better option of two for me.

 

[rademamj]

I don't know about Kioti, but Kubota has a subframe for their backhoes so it won't tear the tractor apart. I suspect Kioti is the same way. Some backhoes are setup for use with a cab, it depends. On some of them you sit outside the cab to run the backhoe, you would have to check on the specific model. The only time I wish I had a cab is when its really cold out for snow removal. If I did hours of mowing in the summer, it would be nice but I mow my yard in less than two hours usually.

Kioti is same. Very strong subframe mounted for attachment of the backhoe. The subframe provides both weight distribution and stability for the backhoe. The Kioti backhoe can be mounted and used even with a factory installed cab.....which keeps you cool in summer, warm in the winter.

 

[haroldy]

I have a problem ,,, all this talk about 3pt backhoe woes,, I would like to hear from someone who has had a problem not just hearsay,, I have used a 3pt for over 20 years without any problem ,, rocks and stumps
and anything else.. what am I missing

 

[Rock Crawler]

One other thing of note, Kubota has an excellent insurance program. For about $1 per 1000 of the tractor cost/month you get complete coverage on our off your property. $250 deductable.

Kioti has something similar but I dont have the specifics yet, my impression was it doesnt cover everything Kubotas does.

Anybody have any experience with either of their insurance coverage?

The Kubota KTAC insurance is currently $15.60 per thousand dollars per year. So if your buying a $30,000 package, it's 30 X $15.60 for the yearly cost, then multiply that by your years of financing. That is added to the loan on the front side, but your now covered exceptionally well to the end of the financing period. You may also continue this coverage indefinitely after the loan period by stating the insured value for the year, and you pay for each year, one at a time, in a lump sum at the start of that new 12 month period.

 

[paulfun9]

The Kioti is a larger tractor so I am not surprised at what you're finding. Normally you'd want to compare similar sized tractors across brands -- so the Kubota L2501/3301/3901 models are a more appropriate match (though no factory cab on those models). Generally, you're going to get more for your money with Kioti but it may come down to which tractor you like better.

I see NO POINT in comparing on size alone! If one brand can compete with a 40HP much better fit machine for the same money as the other brand wants for a 25 to 30 HP unit then the more expensive brand simply looses in my book!