Updated TV Antenna Thoughts

flyerdan · Feb 20, 2018

Yes, it is KATU. Other stations that run on the RF 8 and 12 bands are in the light green area above the chart, despite being in the same distance and aiming range, so the higher RF must be the factor. I see that it is part of the FCC repack, and will be going from 43 to 24, so I'll see if that makes any difference.
Much as I'd like that whizz-bang toy, not spending that kind of money; one of the reasons for going to antenna was to eliminate the cable$$. Plus they required a box, thus rendering the dvd recorders with digital tuners unusable on their platform. Thanks for the info.

buickanddeere · Feb 20, 2018

MossRoad said:
The installation instructions say the power supply can go anywhere from a few feet to 150' away from the amp. It doesn't affect anything.

Amplifier is supposed to be mounted up on the antenna and the power supply down near the TV. Having the amp up at the antenna amplifys more signal and less noise .

buickanddeere · Feb 20, 2018

We use a Winegard Flat Wave FL-6550A . My daughter would not allow 殿 big ugly deep fringe Yagi? It is small , unobtrusive, amplified and with low loss RG-6 cable . For being mounted too low on the eve of a bungalow house with hundreds of houses and trees obscuring the signal from Detroit to Sarnia . The almost invisible Winegard Flat Wave FL-6540A reliably brings in 3 channels of NBC , 3 channels of ABC, 4 channels of PBS, 2 channels of CBS and from Ontario CTV2, CHCH and CIII Global.
For all it cost , the 60 mile distance from transmitters and the too low/obscured antenna mounting . It does very well.

MossRoad · Feb 20, 2018

buickanddeere said:
Amplifier is supposed to be mounted up on the antenna and the power supply down near the TV. Having the amp up at the antenna amplifys more signal and less noise .

Again, read the manufacturers instructions. Yes, you are correct that's the amp is supposed to be mounted close to the antenna. No, you are incorrect that the power supply has to be near the TV. It does not.

MossRoad · Feb 20, 2018

k0ua said:
See if you had some specifications of gain in the forward lobe of your antenna, then you could take a measurement of your received signal strength, and calculate your "fade margin". This is always done in commercial installations of point to point systems. You must know your fade margin to know if a particular antenna with a particular gain is going to get the job done when conditions are not so good as your reference test. Rain and snow will attenuate your signals, but if you knew you were on the "ragged edge" or had say a 10 dB fade margin or not could help guide your choices.

Of course you can make estimates all day, and say, well, bigger is better etc. And that is true but if you KNEW what you had you could spend your money wisely. There is actual science to antennas, transmission lines (coax) and path loss. We can make actual calculations with just a LITTLE knowledge. I could teach many of you the concepts of antenna gain (never something for nothing, antennas with gain in one direction have loss in another), transmission line losses, and how the decibel scale works. in about a day. But with no specifications printed out that we can work with, we would have to do our own experiments to find these things out. So I guess we will just look at "miles" ratings and go on with life. Enough of my rant. But if any of you would like to learn something about antennas or related things, I will do my best to answer them. I don't have all the answers, but I can usually find them.

I understand how antennas work. I have two degrees in electronics (industrial electronics, and communications, with a focus on TV and radio repair). I just don't like the advertising hype of internet TV antenna sellers. It does nothing for the average homeowner, but make them think "bigger numbers mean it must be what I need."

I have no test gear, that's my problem.

k0ua · Feb 20, 2018

MossRoad said:
I understand how antennas work. I have two degrees in electronics (industrial electronics, and communications, with a focus on TV and radio repair). I just don't like the advertising hype of internet TV antenna sellers. It does nothing for the average homeowner, but make them think "bigger numbers mean it must be what I need."

I have no test gear, that's my problem.

Yeah, test gear gets expensive. AND you don't need it all the time. Of course when I worked in TV shops (back in the day) we had access to everything I needed. That was nice , but those days are long gone. I went to the telephone industry and into application engineering. Now antenna work and RF is all just hobby to me now. I bet we would have fun together, I could teach you some RF things and you could teach me more networking. Shame you live so far away. If you ever have a hankering into getting your Amateur radio license and working on some of the new digital techniques that we use, I sure would help you get started. I have helped dozens of guys over the phone and using Teamviewer.

ultrarunner · Feb 20, 2018

^^^ Growing up in the 60's we had a neighbor in a residential neighborhood with a tower... he was a long haul truck driver for a time.

He would be on the radio Saturday mornings... we could hear everything he said as it came through the Blaupunkt Stereo the folks had and we were not the only ones.

Another neighbor just had a Genie Door Picker-Upper installed... when the radio guy Key Up the mike the door would open or close...

As kids we were amazed... some of the drown ups not so much.

Later we moved next to the Navy Hospital... the church had PA system and the Medivac Helicopters would come through crystal clear sometimes...

I only got as far as CB... my Radio Shack Antenna is still on the roof of the house where I grew up... my radio was all chrome and had tubes... good memories.... collected a lot of cards from far off places back then.

MossRoad · Feb 20, 2018

My youngest daughter's boyfriend has his ham license.... there's hope for the younger gen, yet! :laughing:

buckeyefarmer · Feb 20, 2018

MossRoad said:
I understand how antennas work. I have two degrees in electronics (industrial electronics, and communications, with a focus on TV and radio repair). I just don't like the advertising hype of internet TV antenna sellers. It does nothing for the average homeowner, but make them think "bigger numbers mean it must be what I need."

I have no test gear, that's my problem.

Yea, i work in a whole building full of rf engineers that design antenna systems all day long.

Fcc certified lab. Guess i can ask one of them, or go back and restudy my EE books on the subject. I did not like that section of EE. I only been at this job a few months, i do software testing on rf devices. Another whole section tests the rf stuff, including my new officemate. He's out with the flu.

But this is a darn tv antenna, pick one from a stack of 100, most will do the job right now, until they repack some of the high uhf into low vhf space.

Mine broke. I could easily fix the broken one, but wanted a smaller antenna for todays freqs. I could also remove the low v section of the one on my deck and put it up the pole.