What is the difference between $200 and $300 sqft?

[handtools]

What is the difference between $200 and $300 sqft?


No one has answered the original question, it's $100/sqft! :laughing:

 

[EddieWalker]

No builders in the family.

When going directly to a builder for design and build, are there anythings to watch out for? Pitfalls? I have no inroads into builders in the area, so I will be at their 'mercy' so to speak. I can recognize a lot of things, but one of my largest weaknesses is that I am pretty trusting. I don't lie and think the same of most others. It has bitten me more times than I want to remember, but I still find myself forgetting reality sometimes.

So, if we went that direction, how would you approach the builder and what would you watch out for?

Finding a good builder is the secret to a happy life. This needs to be your number one goal. Walk away from the Architect and start your search for your Contractor. If you have already asked around with everyone you know, posted it on Facebook and still don't have any names, and searched online, then you need to do some foot work. Most lumberyards deal with the local builders. It's tricky getting a solid recommendation, but you can usually find out who the busy ones are, and that's a good sign. You have to be careful of a friend recommending a friend, that usually leads to issues. You can also just drive around and look for homes being built, then do a quick inspection of how clean the job site is. This really is a good indication of a lot of things. Messy job sites also tell you a lot about the builder. Find a clean, organized home being built, find out who the builder is, and who the client is. Talk to both of them.

I'm a firm believer that you need to interview at least five builders. More is even better. Never talk to fewer then five!!!! Most will be engaging, pleasant and agreeable to what you want. But after talking to five, you will see differences. Each will have suggestions, ideas that you might not have thought of. One will usually stand out. Inspect their current projects. I can't emphasize this enough. Google their names, look for complaints. Maybe talk to your banker and ask if they know of anybody. Bankers will rarely recommend somebody that wont finish the job, but they also rarely recommend anybody, so that might be a waste of time. But I would ask anyway.

Most areas have a builders association. Here, it's the Tyler Area Builders Association. They all pay $500 a year to be part of this group, and then they say that they are the good builders. Most are not even builders, but just people in the trades. Half of the builders are worthless and should be avoided. But there are some really good builders in the group too, and when looking for somebody to hire, it will end up being one of them. Twice a year they have an open house showing off what they have built called the "Parade of Homes". You can get some really great ideas going through those houses and a lot of the time, meet the builder. Then start the process of researching them for complaints, talking to references and inspecting their current projects. Be sure to look them up on FB too. The drunks and party animals cannot hide this and seem to go out of their way to post stupid pics of themselves on there.

As a contractor, I hear lots of issues that people have had with contractors that they hired and ignored until it became a disaster. Trust your gut. Never assume it will get better.

Do not pay upfront money. Do not hire somebody that cannot get materials until you pay for them first.

Never hire somebody that does not have a FB account. I know this is kind of silly, but crooked people are always hiding, and honest ones are out in the open.

Be cautious if the only address they have is a PO Box. You want an office at least, and a home address is even better. Honest people are easy to find.

Be careful of flashy trucks. Show off vehicles mean they are spending it faster then they make it.

When talking to the builder, find out who will actually be doing the building. Some farm everything out and rely on who is available. Other have regular crews that have worked for them for years. One isn't better then the other, unless their is a problem.

Find pictures of the foundation being poured in previous projects. Make sure that they use rebar and that it's set on chairs. This is such a basic principle, but one that is short cut all the time. Concrete will always crack. Rebar needs to be in the middle or lower part of the slab, but with concrete all the way around it. There is no way to lift it while spreading concrete and expect it to stay in the middle of the slab. This game last long enough for pictures, if that long, and then the crew has to get busy and they stop playing that game to get the mud spread before it hardens. Never use wire on a house slab. If you see that in any of their pictures, walk away.

Most issues that I see with a house are with how the roof was framed. A bad contractor will try to save a buck and under size the lumber in roof. Great rooms are where most problems happen because they didn't use the correct sized lumber for the span. No matter who you hire, make sure to check the math on this by going online and searching span tables for the type of wood used. This will be hard to check if you are not knowledgeable on framing. But still a good indication of who is doing it right, and who is ripping off their client.

 

[Peter 315]

I agree with Eddie I delivered lumber for years, Some contractors would have dumpsters full all the time That's your money in their. Some would send back a hand full of 2x4 for credit. Just take your time

 

[teg]

What is the difference between $200 and $300 sqft?


No one has answered the original question, it's $100/sqft! :laughing:

Actually post #6 did that... (not sure too many people figured it out!!)

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...difference-between-200-300-a.html#post5013226

 

[handtools]

Actually post #6 did that... (not sure too many people figured it out!!)

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...difference-between-200-300-a.html#post5013226

:mur: Yep, I missed that! :mur:

 

[MossRoad]

..... They are crap, but the floor plans are genius for the space available.

....

I laughed so hard I choked. :laughing:

Living in the RV capitol of the world, there are lots of RV companies that have divisions for manufactured housing. Watching them being built you just gotta be amazed at the efficiencies of scale. But you are correct, for the most part on the quality. They are truly slapped together in an extremely fast process.

As for architects, my dad was an architect. And even he said its best to look at pre-drawn plans, draw some things out on paper, get with a builder, and skip the architect on most home building projects. It's an added expense that you don't need when, as you said, most floor plans have already been drawn up in many forms, mirror images, flip-flops, etc...

 

[Coyote machine]

I'm solidly with the group who goes without the architect. I took my 1970 built by a local builder's house and called up a builder from the road near me and had him come to my house and sit with me and my wife to design a large addition. We drew out on legal pads what I wanted, talked about who he had and for how long on his crew. We talked about who would be subs for concrete, HVAC, etc. We agreed that I would buy all materials from our local lumber yard, and I would have their draftsman do blueprints of the foundation, roof trusses, glulams and beams for spans on the 4'H crawl space, etc. The lumber yard sent out the details and had the trusses stamped/certified and built to snow-load specs for our area, etc.

We built a 30' x 30' with 10' x 12' L off the addition, for a mudroom. We went from 8' original height ceilings to transition (atrium area) at 10' then up to 17' (?) Cathedral ceiling for kitchen/DRM, back down to a vaulted mudroom ceiling. Each area had non-operable Velux skylights, with electric built in blinds.

We purchased all SS appliances, custom granite countertops, all custom with 3/4" wood shelves and plywood box red birch cabinets, and huge center island of granite. My wife specked and chose each appliance and all decorative aspects. I customized the Viking stock downdraft pop up range hood in the island with a larger 1500 CFM blower to carry range fumes to daylight via the crawlspace. Viking said it would void warranty if done my way. I did it anyway and it's worked perfectly since 2009.

At the same time we tore off all original cedar shakes and replaced all windows with Marvin Integrity line. We ripped up all the carpet and baseboard on entire first floor and wrapped the entire house with 1" blue foam and Tyvek. Then Hardie cementitious siding on entire house. Metal standing seam roofing in some areas, architectural shingles on other roofs with a radiant temp sensor controlled metal track for snow-melt under gable end overhangs, to atrium roof below, etc.

My point is with searching locally, finding quality people who care about their reputation, and YOU providing the daily problem solving/answering questions or asking along the way, as things are built ,goes way past what an architect can do for someone. Some are design/build people who get more involved, but it does jack up the eventual price, and may or may not be worth the extra price points for most houses. Sometimes it comes down to folks who want to brag my architect is better than yours - likely for a bigger hole in one's wallet!

So take the time needed to find the resources in your area. Another possible source is local realtors who can likely tell you who has the best reputations, who is busiest, who does medium sized homes, etc. They can be a place to start looking for builders in your area.

 

[/pine]

One of the benefits of having a professional architect design a residence is in the "details"...this is a document that accompanies the structural drawings...it specifies all materials, fixtures, finishes etc., etc...To a professional contractor the "detail" sheet(s) are as important as the mechanical drawings...a good architect will include sources for any materials that are not readily available from typical material suppliers...good details are paramount for accurate cost estimating/bidding...

Architects and engineers are almost always licensed by the states where they practice...often contractors are licensed by the county, city etc. and not the state...State boards are the best place to start when researching any complaints against building professionals...

It's not uncommon in some states to see certain trades sub-contractors (electric, plumbing,roofing etc. for example) that are required to pass state exams and hold state licenses where general contractors are not...

Liability is the major reason that larger municipalities require permitting with inspections and most have engineering departments that must approve the mechanical drawings/design before issuing a permit for most occupied buildings etc...anything considered outside standard building methods must have a seal from a registered architect and or engineer...

 

[txdon]

So, if we went that direction, how would you approach the builder and what would you watch out for?

Get as mush as possible in writing assume nothing. You will change you mind on different things as it is being built - ask about how he handles changes. Try to be there whenever they are building. Ask the builder for suggestions when you are unsure and explore your options. For example, if you want all copper wiring or wiring to code make sure you know which code he is using. My house was built between Houston and Austin and the code in each city is different. Do you want a foundation with the tension cables and warranty? Do you want PEX (sp) tubing for plumbing? What about wiring for outdoor lights?

You will have a thousand of decisions to make and sometimes you will not have the time to research each decision.

 

[dmccarty]

I designed the house we build and now live in. I wanted to be an architect, took three years of drafting in high school, and up until we built our house, was constantly sketching out the house I wanted to build. Designing a good house is not rocket science but it takes a bit of effort.

Keeping a house size under control, aka, under the square foot budget, takes effort and design compromises. It is EASY to just add square footage especially if you don't have to pay for that added space. It is even easier if the architect is charging by the square foot... My first designs shown to the builder were two story loft designs. As we went through the cost and we ended up with a single story house.

Two story homes require stairs. Stairs are wasted space and expensive to build. There is only so much you can do with stairs and you can really only use a small part of they take up. Hallways need to be minimized. Hallways are wasted space. Two story homes are hard to design without having hallways. Another problem with two story homes is that most of the time, the second floor has to line up with the first floor on some walls if not all walls. This often means one ends up with some rooms too big or too small. Too small might help the budget but you might not like it. Adding a foot to a room can have big impacts to the house square footage. If the house is two stories, that additional foot really can add to the size and cost of the house.

Example. We have a walk in closet. One side of the closet only has 12 inches of depth. If we had 24 inches we could have another storage cabinet. Easy peasy, right? Well.... To add 12 inches really adds 55 square feet to the house since we would have to move an exterior wall one foot. Since that wall is 55 feet long, it would add 55 sf to the house. The other rooms that would have gotten that extra space did not need extra space so it was just wasted money. If there was a second floor over that part of the house, that extra 12 inches in the closet would add 110 square feet to the house. If the cost per foot is $100, that itty bitty storage space would cost $11,000!

Our cost to build was about $130 per square foot but that does not include the cost of the land. In our case, with a single story, that extra foot of storage space would have cost $7,000! We did not move that wall. :laughing::laughing::laughing:

I spent A LOT of time with graph paper working on different designs that worked with our requirements. By the time we had completed real "blue prints" I had a stack of graph paper a 1/2-1" thick full of different ideas. Graph paper is cheap. We have about 20 sf of hall space in the entire house. :thumbsup:

Our house is single story, brick on all sides, 50 year shingles, colored concrete floor, too many, large, expensive windows and doors, two big baths, large kitchen, wood stove, two large covered porches, and granite counter tops. Twas about $130 a sf if my memory is right.

Later,
Dan