What is the difference between $200 and $300 sqft?

[kcflhrc]

I remember when we built our house in 1996, 1300 sq ft Ranch with full walk out basement. Huge lot in a new neighborhood. Price was $108k, so even back then, that's $83 a sq ft. We finished the basement ourselves except for the carpet, added a bath down there and a bedroom. We sold it in 2010 for around $180K if I remember right. Bought our house we live in now, a 1970 2 story brick on 10 acres, it was a time capsule when we moved in 4 years ago. Shag carpeting, linoleum floors, original everything. It's a 2500 sq ft with 5 bedrooms and 3 1/2 bath with a fully finished basement. We use 1 bath and 1 bedroom but we bought it and the 10 acres for $235k. We have probably put about $50k into it and it is valued somewhere between $325k and $350k. So a worthwhile investment. But it has truly been a money pit. Septic issues, plumbing issues, electrical issues, you name it. I like living in the country but truth be told, it will be a glorious day when I drive down that driveway for the last time heading for the lake and retirement, I wont miss it.

 

[bspeedy]

No builders in the family.

When going directly to a builder for design and build, are there anythings to watch out for? Pitfalls? I have no inroads into builders in the area, so I will be at their 'mercy' so to speak. I can recognize a lot of things, but one of my largest weaknesses is that I am pretty trusting. I don't lie and think the same of most others. It has bitten me more times than I want to remember, but I still find myself forgetting reality sometimes.

So, if we went that direction, how would you approach the builder and what would you watch out for?

We built in 2010. If I had it to do over again, I would pick out my brick, roofing, granite, tile, carpet, windows, interior and exterior doors, cabinet builder (or cabinets), and all fixtures ahead of time. Pick the exact product and give your builder a rough floorplan sketch and some elevation / exterior views that you like or would like to have. Also, write down details like - how many outlets in the garage on how many circuits. Any special considerations, etc. No assumptions. A detailed plan room by room. Then let them go to work and quote. This should allow them to get very firm pricing and make pricing from one builder to another easier to compare.

We chose our builder by gut feel. He was not the cheapest. He had a good reputation and we felt good about the company. One of the most important things we did was ask him - what about this house do you not like or not want to do? Probably seems like a funny question, but I wanted our builder to want to build it as much as we did. They dreaded the idea of doing a coffered ceiling in the living room area. Also they had a few other ideas to make things simpler to build and less expensive. At the end, we took some of their advice and disregarded other portions of it. It was a win-win for all. And we ended up with a 19' cathedral ceiling in the main room that is MUCH better than that coffered ceiling.

All local labor was used, changes were dealt with by handshake. We were part of the process from start to finish. They did a great job for us, and we were all on good terms at the end.

 

[newbury]

One of the benefits of having a professional architect design a residence is in the "details"...<snip>

Also include in "the details"
Knowing the local inspectors and get things such as lot clearances "slid by".
Being able to recommend a good builder that will work for YOU, not just your dollar.
Enough respect so they can yank the contractors by the shorthairs and get results.

I had a 600 sq ft above grade house which is now 1600+ sq ft above grade. Basically added great room, living room, master bedroom, and 2 "bump outs" about 15x15, all with FULL basement with an 8' ceiling in the basement. Plus redid nearly the entire electrical and heating a/c.

We "went through" 3 architects - The first failed quickly, the second started drawing plans and going down the golden brick road, the third we could work with.

All of them had hearing and math problems, every time we said we could spend $1 they heard $2 and it would actually be $3.

The one we selected gave us a list of potential contractors to which we sent the detailed specs. A few came in at about $300K, 1 at $150K, 1 at about $110K. So we spent a month or two trying to work with the low bidder. That was a FAIL. He eventually increased costs up to $200K BEFORE we gave him the go ahead.
"Oh, I forgot about dirt removal". "The stairs will cost more" "roofing prices have increased" "my plumber sub raised his prices".
The architect got him tossed without a dollar.

Other things the architect did were to provide knowledge of local zoning changes and what to do. Even though the plans got "approved" there were several instances where they shouldn't have and the inspector almost shut down the project. We had a narrow stairway that no longer "met code" for width by a few inches. She got the inspector to approve when he wanted to shut us down just before the project was done.

 

[MossRoad]

On the flip side of no hallways is a house where all rooms open up into one main room. That's no good, either. You get a lot of unwanted shots of grandpa in his underwear that way, if you know what I mean.

My father's house had many hallways. You could get anywhere in the house without having to go through another room if you didn't want to. That was nice. The exception was the family room. To get to the dormitory(the four kids' bedrooms and bath), you had to go though the family room. Going through the family room, meant you were in full view of the centrally located kitchen, which had a closable Japanese themed opaque bi-fold shuttered window over the sink looking into the family room. So, at any given time, mom in the kitchen could see the entire family room, anyone coming or going to the bedrooms, the dining room, the living room, the front and back doors.... you couldn't get away with nothing! Man, she was like a hawk! :laughing:

 

[/pine]

When working with a hands on builder/contractor/designer etc...especially one that employes their own mechanics a most important question is...how many jobs they work at one time?

Another thing that can help someone that has never been through the process before is...even if they are building out of pocket...going through a bank with a (short term) building loan can be quite advantageous as the bank will set the work/draw schedules, secure material supplier lien wavers and make sure all personnel on a persons property is properly covered with liability insurance...

FWIW many GCs will just ask their subs if they are fully covered for W.C. etc... and not really check to be sure...it does not matter what anyone says...in most states the actual property owner is the bottom line in liability matters...

 

[Paddy]

Hey, I'm all about a man's home is his castle but, you have to look at what homes are selling for of equal quality. It may cost YOU $750,000 to 1 MUSD to build, but if it's only worth $500 k on the market when done, wow!

The problem with the high cost extras is it's what you chose. Next person coming along may think your $60,000 Amish cherry cabinets are way to dark! Throw them out!

OK, so you are going to "live there the rest of your Life". Or until life changes and you have to move. I don't think I'd want to build a house that I thought I'd be "upside down if I had to sell it.

I'll bet you can do way better than the prices your getting.

 

[teejk]

In the commercial world the architect gets a cut of the action so the incentive to spend a lot is there. Dunno if that is true in the residential world. I think the best advice is to find a builder that will be the "general" as well as the builder and has been around for a while and uses subs that have been around for a while. Costs vary and depending on where you live you might have a pile of money invested before the first stick of lumber goes in (permits, well, septic, electric service etc.) but I think current replacement value insurance rates might say that $150/sq ft is about right.

 

[fried1765]

I remember when we built our house in 1996, 1300 sq ft Ranch with full walk out basement. Huge lot in a new neighborhood. Price was $108k, so even back then, that's $83 a sq ft. We finished the basement ourselves except for the carpet, added a bath down there and a bedroom. We sold it in 2010 for around $180K if I remember right. Bought our house we live in now, a 1970 2 story brick on 10 acres, it was a time capsule when we moved in 4 years ago. Shag carpeting, linoleum floors, original everything. It's a 2500 sq ft with 5 bedrooms and 3 1/2 bath with a fully finished basement. We use 1 bath and 1 bedroom but we bought it and the 10 acres for $235k. We have probably put about $50k into it and it is valued somewhere between $325k and $350k. So a worthwhile investment. But it has truly been a money pit. Septic issues, plumbing issues, electrical issues, you name it. I like living in the country but truth be told, it will be a glorious day when I drive down that driveway for the last time heading for the lake and retirement, I wont miss it.

I have always been of the opinion that ALL architects must attend a mandatory annual luncheon.
At the luncheon, each is required to provide plans, and photos of the most ridiculous, and absurd plans, that they have sold to a client, in the past year.

 

[FM504]

Hey, I'm all about a man's home is his castle but, you have to look at what homes are selling for of equal quality. It may cost YOU $750,000 to 1 MUSD to build, but if it's only worth $500 k on the market when done, wow!

The problem with the high cost extras is it's what you chose. Next person coming along may think your $60,000 Amish cherry cabinets are way to dark! Throw them out!

OK, so you are going to "live there the rest of your Life". Or until life changes and you have to move. I don't think I'd want to build a house that I thought I'd be "upside down if I had to sell it.

I'll bet you can do way better than the prices your getting.

I agree 100% with this and it’s important. The first quote I received for my project was 35k above what the bank valued the build at so I talked with my builder and told him I couldn’t see paying him more than what the bank appraisal said it was going to be worth. He dropped his quote to match the appraisal. If a builder wants to work for you they will work WITH you.

 

[teejk]

I agree 100% with this and it’s important. The first quote I received for my project was 35k above what the bank valued the build at so I talked with my builder and told him I couldn’t see paying him more than what the bank appraisal said it was going to be worth. He dropped his quote to match the appraisal. If a builder wants to work for you they will work WITH you.

Usually depends on how busy he is. Finally coming off the "crash" from 2008 anybody in the building trades might tell you to find somebody else. We built here in 2010 and bought a plan from a book (not cheap and probably a waste of money but it was what SWMBO wanted). We turned that over to an outfit that did "panelized" construction (essentially stick built but in a factory and then assembled on site). Never actually did the math but I think we came in at about $80 sq ft with cement board siding and premium shingles but we did most of the interior work ourselves (taping drywall, electrical, flooring, cabinets, etc.).