Running power to my barn, need electrical advice..

[Wakey]

I have a 60 amp circuit that used to go to the oven but I changed it out to a new propane model.

I'd like to use this for my run to the barn if it is suitable. The wire is 6/2 with ground.

Otherwise I'll have to expose some conduit from the breaker box that I'd rather not have to do (for esthetic reasons).

The barn will just have duplex outlets and 4 - 4' LED lights.

is the 6/2 OK to run to the sub panel in the barn?

The length of wire (if I tap into the old oven circuit) would be 189 feet, from start to finish. If I run a wire directly from the main panel to the barn it would be 160 feet or slightly less.

I was wondering if I put a ground rod just outside the wall of the sub panel it might pass muster.

Please don't tell me something I don't want to hear :laughing:

Kidding aside, I don't shoot messengers!

 

[marchanna]

I think your run is a little too long. 6 gage for 60amps is a maximum of about 10 feet. You can go further but you’re going to start getting voltage loss. Either way you’re no where near the run that you want. I think you’d be better off swapping out the breaker for 20 or 30 amps to limit the load to something within spec.

 

[flingwing1969]

I would go with no less than 4AWG copper or 2AWG aluminum.

 

[Mendonsy]

The wire size calculator says you need #4 copper or #3 aluminum for that run.
Wire size calculator

 

[Lineman North Florida]

For running 4 LED lights and if you don't overload your receptacles I think it would be fine but if you wanted to use a true 60 amps you better upgrade.

 

[CobyRupert]

I assume you're running new wire to the barn. If you want to keep the 60 amp breaker, tap into the circuit and run a #4 AWG to the barn. The existing first 20' of #6 AWG in the circuit won't hurt your voltage drop. Or if you run direct from the panel (and want to keep the 60 amp breaker), use #4 awg all the way.

 

[WVBill]

I am not an electrician. This is just my experience. YMMV.

This is similar to what I did to my barn several years ago. I ended up running #4 THHN-THWN cable in conduit (1 white, 1 black and 1 #8 Green) out to the sub-panel in the garage off of a 240V 60-amp breaker in the main panel in the house.

Is your 6/2 wire rated for underground feeder (UF-B)? if not, you'll need to run it in conduit out to the barn. In any case, as marchanna points out 6AWG is too small to run 180 feet at any amperage for a 120 V circuit.

The Oven breaker is probably a 240 V breaker, however - in which case the 6/2 will get you out to as much as 188 ft with the max 3% voltage drop

Proper Wire Size for Underground Circuit Cable

You'll also want to check electrical codes concerning the need for a ground rod out at the barn.

 

[EddieWalker]

If all you want to do is have a few outlets and some lights, then you don't need anywhere near 60 amps.

Ideally, you need to come up with a load chart that lists what you will be using in your shop. Do you have any big power tools? Air compressor? welder?

a 20 amp outlet will hand a small air compressor, but it should be on a dedicated line without anything else sharing it.

Lights don't need very much power and a 15 amp breaker should handle them.

another 20 amp outlet will handle most power tools, especially since you usually only run one power tool at a time.

You should be fine with 40 amps.

If you really want 60 amps, you need to size the wire from your breaker and the distance accordingly.

Can you remove the existing wire to the breaker and run a larger wire through the existing conduit? If not, then you're only real choice is to live with 40 amps.

 

[Cord]

Because voltage drop is controlling, you can still run the existing 6/2 to a junction box where the heavier wire is spliced in. You would need to add a neutral and ground because the barn would be a subpanel.

 

[prichard]

Nothing wrong with your plan. Just keep voltage drop in mind if actually needing 60A. If you don't need that much power go for it and just use #6 with 60A breaker.

 

[RNeumann]

You can’t do this by code if you want any 120v circuits. You don’t have a neutral.......

Most modern ovens would want 6/3. Are you sure you don’t have a neutral on that circuit?

 

[flingwing1969]

You can’t do this by code if you want any 120v circuits. You don’t have a neutral.......

Most modern ovens would want 6/3. Are you sure you don’t have a neutral on that circuit?

He can only hope. It may have been an old installation though. He can pull a new neutral off the buss in the main panel though, since he already has a ground that is all he has to do.

OP, are you planning on a full 240 vac panel in the barn or simply want 120 out there. If so, you can properly mark the second hot in the oven circuit and connect it to the neutral buss then run the properly sized wire to the barn - keep in mind that 120 vac needs larger wire than 240 vac so you would need 1AWG copper or 2/0AWG aluminum. Therefore, it will cost you considerably more to run a 120 vac sub panel to the barn than to install a neutral to the existing oven circuit (if necessary) or run a new line all the way from the breaker box to a sub-panel in the barn.

There are a number of good (and legal) ways to do it. If cost is the main determinate, I would abandon the oven's wires (unless they are on the barn side and they are 6/3 with ground and then I'd drop a sub panel there but all you are doing is saving the cost of a bit of wire), use the ovens well tested 60 amp breaker for the barn, run the proper sized wire to the barn, install a sub panel there I use care on grounding requirements) and let there be light.

 

[grsthegreat]

electrician here. to be code compliant you would have to run a 4 conductor wire to shop. 2 hots, a neutral and a ground. You will also need to set a new ground rod at shop. the shop panel would need a separate ground buss and an isolated neutral.

that being said, if you want to run a non compliant circuit, i guess you could run that to a 30 amp, 240 panel in shop. have a 30 amp main breaker in the new panel and swap out the house breaker with a 30 amp breaker. add a ground rod at shop and keep ground and neutral on same buss. this is how it was done for 100 years. Mind you, if you sell the house you could be forced to fix this. By swapping the feed breaker to 30 amps, the wire will get you a good strong 30 amps at that distance. all the new wire would have to be #6 also. youll only have 30 amps, but it will o0perate a compressor, lights, outlets. not a welder though. A 110 volt mig would work fine.

for me personally. id run a new 4 wire circuit to main panel and do it the right way. id also use some 2/2/2/4 urd or xhhw alum feeder wires and run a 90 amp circuit out there. the trench is the most expensive and hard part of the whole thing. 2/2/2/4 urd direct burial runs about $1.40 per foot or less. you can even sleeve it thru conduit if you want more protection.

 

[PILOON]

Do what you want but just be sure that the protection is correct for the wire gauge and that the grounds are in place as otherwise U might end up 6 ft under.
Wrong protection will simply blow breakers or fuses,
Bad grounding can put U 6 ft under.
U can't go wrong with grounds at both ends.

 

[swnoel]

As a general rule the load should not exceed 80% of the breaker size.

 

[Wakey]

for me personally. id run a new 4 wire circuit to main panel and do it the right way. id also use some 2/2/2/4 urd or xhhw alum feeder wires and run a 90 amp circuit out there. the trench is the most expensive and hard part of the whole thing. 2/2/2/4 urd direct burial runs about $1.40 per foot or less.

I like the sound of this, it gives me more options and removes a future situation where I wonder "what was I thinking" LOL

I have to see what kind of access is left in the panel and what about capacity? On a 200 amp panel can I simply replace the 60 amp breaker with a 90 amp?

The insurance agent just told me I have to fence the pool in and add a handrail to the front steps nobody but the dog uses.

Just when I was thinking I was getting close.

 

[Wakey]

I'm seeing a 30 amp future in the barn.. The bottom knockout has the buried service feed in it and the jumpers from the transfer switch are in the way anyhow. The top knockout is clear but I'd have to run the conduit up that high outside and it would look pretty shabby.

This is the outside view, standing on the parking pad. The panel is directly behind the flushed meter.



For what I need 30 amps is fine. If I ever want to weld I think I will just have to get something self powered, no plans anyhow.

The trenching should be a real party, I have to cross the pool infrastructure. I see hand digging that part.

 

[grsthegreat]

I like the sound of this, it gives me more options and removes a future situation where I wonder "what was I thinking" LOL

I have to see what kind of access is left in the panel and what about capacity? On a 200 amp panel can I simply replace the 60 amp breaker with a 90 amp?

The insurance agent just told me I have to fence the pool in and add a handrail to the front steps nobody but the dog uses.

Just when I was thinking I was getting close.

dont know what brand panel you have, but most will allow a simple swap for a 2 pole breaker up to 125 amps. Some older style paneks might be hard to find breakers fir

 

[grsthegreat]

View attachment 546153

I'm seeing a 30 amp future in the barn.. The bottom knockout has the buried service feed in it and the jumpers from the transfer switch are in the way anyhow. The top knockout is clear but I'd have to run the conduit up that high outside and it would look pretty shabby.

This is the outside view, standing on the parking pad. The panel is directly behind the flushed meter.

View attachment 546154

For what I need 30 amps is fine. If I ever want to weld I think I will just have to get something self powered, no plans anyhow.

The trenching should be a real party, I have to cross the pool infrastructure. I see hand digging that part.

that panel is packed. You must have electric heat units throughout house. It might be hard pressed to get 90 amps out of this panel. I think your right on sticking to 30 amps. If you had a full shop, id think about getting another separate service installed for the shop, but seeing as its just lights and a few hand tools... 30 is goid enuf.
By the way.. what sized generator are you using.

 

[YLee Kioti]

So far so good but would never ever recommend aluminum conductors. There will be a need to care for those connections to keep them tight., Anti-corrosion coating.
It would may be better in the long run to install a 100 amp panel. It should about 8 circuits for you.
Run the #4 awg copper cable (within conduit or not) and be set for a 120/220 source at the panel and be done.
Because, one's original plan are only warrantied until the moment it is completed. Immediately after that one moment in time, murphy's law says:
Hmm, air compressor would be handy here, hey a welder would come in handy, see the path here. Which would indicate one size large for a safe margin of safety if cost is not prohibitive for you.
So be safe, use correct gauge and insulation rated conductor for underground install.
Ground at barn be set for 120/220 vac and you set for unforeseen need and growth at least a few years.