New battery technology?

   / New battery technology? #21  
First there has to be a new truth. There are no opponents of some new battery technology. So your Max's statement doesn't apply here. Your just dreaming and hoping for a breakthroug.
 
   / New battery technology? #22  
<snip>
Unless the Almighty adds some new elements to the periodic table. There are NO new battery anode, cathode or electrolyte materials . Battery tech has plateaued. Spent lots more and get a very small improvement .

Don't you realize the periodic table is just an invention of man?

We added 4 elements in 2016.

Have you read about Lithium air batteries?

Same old elements, just put together different.
The point is there may be elements found in the future.

You can experiment but most people know enough not to look for treasure in a dung pile . Take a look at the valance electrons of those four 渡ew elements . Do you imagine making a cathode or anode from either ? What is the energy density going to be vs lithium, the lightest metal.
For those thinking there are new high density batteries that operate at room temperature , at atmospheric pressure and are not exceptionally toxic . There is a bridge in Brookland you maybe interested in.
A lithium based battery is the highest energy density rechargeable chemical battery possible .
Is your world flat or round?
 
   / New battery technology? #23  
Similarly about 100 years earlier a group of prominent doctors exclaimed that medicine had achieved its limits.
I think of my first mono reel to reel tape deck then went stereo, my car had a state of the art 8 track cartridge player the cassette which was replaced when Dolby rermoved the hiss, then CD player, my new car does not have a CD player but has a USB slot for reading a memory stick and committing it to internal memory, likewise BETA video, VHS, DVD, Bluray and now a device that isa touch smaller than my little finger nail that can store many hundreds of HD videos.
My first digital camera was 1.4mp, then I went to 6mp, a few in between and now I have a 36mp and shortly after I got that they went to over 50mp, my drone that fits in my pocket is 4K as is my video camera.
Our first colour TV, about a 20" CRT was about $1500 in 1975, our new 65" 4K LED TV was about $2000.
When I got my first new car in 1970 it had a radio and heater and seat belts (optional on some cars then) my new one has all of the above and surround sound, climate control, 9 airbags, ABS, ESC, 8 speed Auto, cruise control, heated mirrors for frosty starts, rear camera, collission avoidance, lane departure warning, blind spot warning, heated and cooled seats, refrigerated centre console and a host of other things I have probably forgotten or haven't discovered yet.
What will we see in the next ten years?

The list you presented are all devices that have not reached their technological limits . How does does advances in unrelated tech apply to other fields ? Have race horses become appreciably faster in the past century? Has the boiling point or freezing point of water changed? Has the speed of sound changed? has the HP per cubic inch of race engines changed all that much in 5 decades ? Has the lead acid battery changed, carbon zink, alkaline or ni-cad battery changed or improved ? The lithium battery has now plateaued in size, weight , capacity and recharge time . Any improvements will be minor and at high cost .
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news , but just because we wish and want some noble ideal to exist . We can not break the laws of physics . What you see on TV on Star Trek is science fiction.
 
   / New battery technology? #24  
That was my point although racehorses and athletes have become faster, some things cannot change (despite DST:rolleyes:).
I do not like or watch Star Trek so cannot comment on the relevance but acknowledge that the laws of physics cannot be changed.
 
   / New battery technology? #25  
The speed of race horses and human athletes has plateaued for decades. Any gains are fractions of a percent and are made at great cost . Like it or not there are also limits on batteries . There are no appreciable gains in rectifiers, inverters, conductors and motors . No worthwhile gains in aerodynamics if the vehicle is still supposed to meet the regulations for safety, lights and seating of humans.
 
   / New battery technology? #26  
A friend just told me that someone is suing a Dealer and Honda on account of poor cold temperature performance of an electric vehicle battery.

Another friend bought a used BMW electric vehicle last week with some kind of tiny back up gas engine. Apparently this thing is set up to comply with California laws, which makes no sense to me at all. Long story short, the thing had to be towed on the way home from the dealer! Nice start!
 
   / New battery technology? #27  
The speed of race horses and human athletes has plateaued for decades. Any gains are fractions of a percent and are made at great cost . Like it or not there are also limits on batteries . There are no appreciable gains in rectifiers, inverters, conductors and motors . No worthwhile gains in aerodynamics if the vehicle is still supposed to meet the regulations for safety, lights and seating of humans.

I have long noticed that cars and small "SUVs" pretty much look the same. There is really no difference in how they look. See a variety of similar sized card stopped in traffic and only very subtle styling cues differentiate the vehicles/brands. Given that the care makers have the same performance requirements, aka, mpg regulations, they must all be of a similar weight, size, and aerodynamic shape.

The gains to be made in Lithium batteries is not in capacity, size, weight, etc but in cost. Lithium based batteries are falling in price and that will be the game changer for many, but not all, applications.

We want to buy a boat and travel. One of the big issues on boats is the house battery system. With wind generators and solar, one can generate a fair amount of power, but the problem is holding that power. Lead acid batteries are heavy, troublesome and have a limited life span and thus, an ongoing expense. LiFePo batteries are the game changer. For the house battery size we might need, it would take 10/12 batteries weighing almost a ton and costing about $10,000. A LiFePo house bank, with the same usable power capacity would only require four batteries weighing 500 pounds but would cost about $21,000. :shocked:

BUT, the higher INITIAL cost of LiFePo is a red herring, well, as long as one could afford the initial cost, because the long term cost of LiFePo is MUCH less than lead acid batteries. The per cycle cost of LiFePo would be about $10 but lead acid would be around $50! :shocked:

The problem with power usage on a boat, or a house, is the HVAC, fridge, freezer, water heater, clothes dryer and dishwasher. Now many/most boats do not have HVAC, or an electric water heater, clothes washer much less a dryer, or a dishwasher. The boats that do have some/all of these power hugs are almost exclusively having to run power from shore or a generator. There are some boats using higher capacity lead acid traction batteries, and maybe some with LiFePo, running some of these loads off of batteries but they are a minority. For now. As the cost of LiFePo batteries falls, one can install a huge battery banks that could run most of these power hogs without strain. HVAC and the clothes dryer being the more problematic power hogs.

The same power usage on boats apply to a house but if one had solar panels and LiFePo batteries one could have most of the house running off solar without an issue. The big power loads of HVAC, hot water generation and the clothes dryer could be met with the grid connection. If on lost power one could still function without too much inconvenience with the solar power via the LiFePo batteries.

As LiFePo costs drop, this stuff becomes more financially possible. If a new technology appears that allows one to store power it will have to beat lead acid and lithium batteries money wise to go anywhere in the market. Right now, most boats are still using lead acid for a variety of reasons but mostly because they are a known quantity and cheaper up front. Any new power storage technology has to make money sense, i.e., be cheaper than the alternatives.

Later,
Dan
 
   / New battery technology? #28  
Hydro. 2 cents a kWh mostly sustainable
Coal. 4 cents a kWh sustainable
Natural gas. 6-8 cents a kWh sustainable
Nuke 6-10 cents a kWh. Mostly Sustainable
Wind solar. 85+ cents a kWh. Not sustainable even over a 6 hr period.

Much better to put efforts into cleaning up coal and gas (already very clean) than waist efforts in wind and solar.
 
   / New battery technology? #29  
I see there isn't much water behind Hoover Dam. In fact, I was quite shocked. That doesn't seem very sustainable to me.
 
   / New battery technology? #30  
The base material Lithium is rising in price due to demand exceeding supply. So much for cheaper lithium batteries.
 

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