Kubota subcompacts are no longer the obvious king of the subcompact hill.

[AxleHub]

I was kind of hoping to read somewhere in your comments what you found better about the Massey then a similar Kubota? Or is it just that Kubota incentives are not what you wanted them to be?

Greetings Eddie,

The point of this thread and my opening post was not about "why" other manufacturer's were making a difference to Kubota sales. The point was that many over the years have said that Kubota was the automatic best choice - and Kubota for many years has operated (as Toyota and Honda did with vehicles) as if they were the default choice.

I had believed a couple years ago that the competition would make some very successful inroads into the competitive process - but still - there was nothing showing from Kubota scut product and its marketing efforts, that they were feeling any pressure.

This year there is ample factual indications on the BX product line - that they are changing their strategy and are offering considerably more incentives than they did prior to BX buyers. The same thing happened when Toyota and Honda started doing considerable rebating - it opened people's eyes to look at how the competition had changed.

I could list numerous items why after so many years of "me going to get a BX" that I changed my choice in 2015. But that is not the point of this thread - and I'm sure other makers have also developed some competitive reasons as well.

Too often in my opinion - TBN owners want to either talk negative about other brands or want to emphasize only their product choice. But just as often - some desire to claim Kubota or John Deere are the obvious choices because of their past. My point is - new buyers and new prospects want to consider the best "future" or present choices for their scut investment. No one can deny Kubota created the original market for scut product in the late 1990s. I also believe Kubota's history (as I said in my original post) - proves they've been a very good and reliable choice in scut product for a long time.

Buuuuut, today is today - and when a manufacturer considerably alters their own marketing process to defend their sales activities or market share percentages during an excellent economy environment - it is quite meaningful IMO. That doesn't mean new buyers should "rush" to get the deals being offered and it doesn't mean that they should avoid the brand. What it means . . . is that the market of scut makers is offering much more meaningful products in the scut category to be considered today - and that there are good reasons to really look at products and not just claim a single brand supremacy.

Now my 1st post as well as this one clearly was talking about scut product - yet you already see some writing about cut product - not my point or words. This is not about defending a brand. This is about people recognizing the brands own efforts to reinforce their sales in ways they "never" did it to the extent being done now.

In many other of my prior posts - I've often listed considerable and quite specific benefits of Kubota or Yanmar or Massey scut products - but I have not here because comparisons or "mine is better than yours" is not my point. Watching what the manufacturers do and how they respond is a very important indicator in my opinion of the future value of the products we choose today. And its important for new buyers to look at what changes competitors are making in specific areas to see if their needs match those changes.

That by the way - has been one of the reasons why I have written often these last 3 years about how often Kubota dealers in the upper Midwest are now selling both Kubota and Massey product in the same dealership and have seen benefits of both for their markets.

My desire is not to win debates as to give new prospects and potential new buyers more clarity in their searches for product. What any of us did 3 or 5 or 10 years ago in our purchases is far less important for these new prospects - than for them to understand why we did it. What triggers and conditions were important. If those choices are based solely on "color of paint" or a product that was produced 10 years ago - I just don't think those are very meaningful.

I grew old hearing "you can't make a mistake buying IBM small market product". And yet 2/3rds of the way through their history - many did make a mistake doing exactly that.

jmho

 

[AxleHub]

I looked hard at these little tractors over the past month. Mainly the BX23S and the GC1710. My biggest complaint about the GC1710 was the loader control stick. I am 6ft tall, and with full seat adjustment had to bend my back just a bit to reach it. Other than that, the GC1710 was a solid tractor. With the BX23S, the HST transmission doesnt function correctly in my opinion. When you let off the pedal (forward or reverse) the tractor continues to roll (as much as 10-15 ft if you are moving fast enough). That is unacceptable to me, but others may be fine with it.

That said, they both seem like capable machines.

I like your "method" of comparison whether I agree with it or not - because you insert what is important for some of your specific needs or desires.

jmho

 

[AxleHub]

One would be quoting recent sales figures if they was touting who was king of the hill.... I missed that part. And if it's because they are no longer leading in technology, maybe at least one example would be given.
Until then, one data point does not make a trend...

Greetings Buckeye,

Manufacturers look at marketshare percentages much more than simply sales numbers. I didn't quote any sales numbers specifically because I believe actions by the manufacturer are much more important than a column of numbers. A couple years ago - Kubota abruptly announced a change and lengthening of of its warranty period because the competitors had superior warranty guarantees. That was a "defensive" action by Kubota. But what I posted about that we've all seen this late fall and this spring (and just updated again) by Kubota on their scut product is an "offensive" action - and again - I believe it is meaningful just as J.D. had some big discounts and big advertising efforts late this fall and early spring on their mowers. When you see these types of things happen in a strong economy, you know they are trying to maintain their market share they already had prior.

JMHO

 

[buckeyefarmer]

I have an old massey, great little tractor. But they ain't king of the hill. Only one massey dealer around, and they carry little stock. I've been waiting weeks to get an oil filter.

I only chimed in because you made a claim with nothing to substantiate it. Sales equates to marketshare. In my neck of the woods, kubota is by far the market leader, they are everywhere. Massey isnt even on a hill here, let alone king of it. They do make good tractors, we just got old fashion dealers..

I bought my first kubota, because the new holland dealer changed his price on me, and the JD dealer wouldnt give me the time of day, and the massey dealer, well they carry no stock to even look at.

 

[oosik]

Hallelujah - - Spring must finally be here - - does anybody else feel that blast of hot air???

 

[AxleHub]

Greetings Buckeye,

You stated:

"I only chimed in because you made a claim with nothing to substantiate it. Sales equates to marketshare."

Thank you for your response. I provided a very significant substantiation to my opinions - the manufacturer's own actions that were substantially different than prior years. Any of us can make a claim and substantiate it with some "number". But when the manufacturer shows a national publicly seen change in method that is heads and tales above anything we posters can offer. Why? Because we're "guessing" what effects them - but they are actually showing the effect in their own actions. It doesn't get clearer imo.

As to the idea of "sales equates to marketshare" - I think that is a very confusing statement. Marketshare is generally defined as "the percentage of sales of the entire specific market category". So if someone said: in 2016 xxx sold 1000 scut units and in 2017 xxx sold 1050 scut units - that in no way relates to marketshare because it doesn't define what the total sales of those units by all manufacturers was. That maker could have lost marketshare by a little or a lot - or could have gained marketshare by a little or a lot - all depending on the economy for that measures period and the percentage of that economic marketshare period for all makers.

Marketshare (not numbers) - is what all "dominant" manufacturers measure their present and future on - because if you lose marketshare - you lose control of your income stream potential - unless you alter your product operation dramatically. If you sacrifice profit to maintain marketshare (giveaways or bigger rebates) - then you are buying marketshare instead of producing for marketshare.

Here's a little trick when you read public company reports - if they focus their discussions on how many sales they made - they are probably avoiding marketshare statements and their net earnings growth comments - while if they focus on how they maintained or increased marketshare in a vibrant economy - then they are probably not avoiding their profitability comments

jmho.

 

[coobie]

I have an old massey, great little tractor. But they ain't king of the hill. Only one massey dealer around, and they carry little stock. I've been waiting weeks to get an oil filter.

I only chimed in because you made a claim with nothing to substantiate it. Sales equates to marketshare. In my neck of the woods, kubota is by far the market leader, they are everywhere. Massey isnt even on a hill here, let alone king of it. They do make good tractors, we just got old fashion dealers..

I bought my first kubota, because the new holland dealer changed his price on me, and the JD dealer wouldnt give me the time of day, and the massey dealer, well they carry no stock to even look at.

++1 one reason I sold my massey 1240.NO dealer support in southern michigan.

 

[buckeyefarmer]

Was hoping for something substantial to back the claim, a little stronger than kubota is offering a free mower deck, and kubota has increased their warrantee, so the sky must be falling.
Just googled, and found an article that said the entire scut market sales have declined in 2017 and 2018. Not surprising that dealers are doing what they can to make sales, it's how business works.

 

[TheMadOne]

Was hoping for something substantial to back the claim, a little stronger than kubota is offering a free mower deck, and kubota has increased their warrantee, so the sky must be falling.
Just googled, and found an article that said the entire scut market sales have declined in 2017 and 2018. Not surprising that dealers are doing what they can to make sales, it's how business works.

I wonder if we're finally reaching saturation with SCUTs. There's probably not a hard limit to the number that can be sold, but between a robust used market and existing owners having no need to replace there's sure to be a drop off after a certain point.

 

[LS Tractor Owner]

The market is very competitive today. When I was researching for my SCUT purchase, 1st on the list was the cost. I was very limited in budget at the time, and cost was truely a determining factor. I made a spreadsheet listing all the specs, capacities, and warranty. JD, Kub. and Mahindra. were eliminated 1st round due to cost (local dealers wanted 5% above MSRP and won't budge) and most out of state ones also.
These were the only 3 dealers, 35-45 miles away, all others now 300-600 miles away.

So now comparing the 4 other manufacturers. I made up a spreadsheet comparing cost, specs, lift capacities, and warranties. One eliminated solely because of reports of difficulty getting parts and very limited number of dealers. The rest: Kioti, Massey, and LS. All very similar, but Massey and LS were the remaining. In the end, the 2 best deals I got were from competing dealers a couple miles away from each other. It was really a toss up between the 2. Bottom line was that LS wanted the sale more and beat Massey's price by $1000.... Couldn't pass it up. Drove 550 miles to pick it up.