Buying Advice Looking for first tractor (sub-compact) and flail mower

[Jerik]

So I am a complete newbie, never even owned a riding mower. My wife and I bought a 9 acres spread 20 years ago as a retirement home. We rented out the house and paid someone to bush-hog the half of the fields twice a year for $500 a pop. Two other fields were being hayed by a neighbor, and another neighbor fenced in another pasture for their cow. Sometimes I would cut the sections of lawn with my push mower (3+ hours), sometimes hire someone. But now the cow is gone, the first neighbor is talking about moving further south, and we are in the house. I figure it is time for me to do the mowing.

My wife was the one who first heard about flail mowers and they really appeal to us. I've been doing some research, found this forum, and have learned a lot. At this point I am thinking about a JD 1025R (PTO = 18 HP) or a Kubota BX-2380 (PTO = 17.7) or a Kubota BX-2680 (PTO = 19.5), along with a WoodMaxx FM-54 (minimum PTO = 18 HP). I figure getting a new tractor will make it much easier on me with service & maintenance, being a newbie, plus the used ones I've seen listed almost always come with either a FEL or a mower. Since I would be using it almost exclusively to pull the flail, I'm thinking I can save $3K by not getting a loader.

How important is having a position control 3 point hitch with a flail mower? Since the flail is supposed to ride on the rear roller, it seems to me that the having the 3 point hitch either up or down is sufficient, but I could easily be missing something.

Some people in the forum like the Caroni flail, but I figure the WoodMaxx is a bit wider, needs less PTO, 20% lighter and $300 less expensive with the shipping. Also a lot of people on the forum have been getting wider flail mowers, but the tractor is a sub-compact, and as someone else said in the forum, I have more time than money, so I think a 4-footer should be OK.

Given that I'm not planning to get a FEL, the one dealer I've been to so far said that I needed front end weights. How much is needed?

The lawn is by no means pristine, so I'm hoping that I can get by doing most of it with the flail instead of using a regular mower, and don't want to spend the close-to-$2K for a belly mower. The fields are pretty clear, both rolling and flat, nowhere that I would term steep. Most of the fields have some trees, but not many. We'e always had a bunch of honey locust treelets sprouting up which we then have to deal with by hand, so I figure more frequent mowing will help stop that. I'm not going to making new trails, pretty much maintaining the fields, so I shouldn't need anything heavy duty.

Given my application, I'm still unsure of which flail blades would be best. WoodMaxx says to use the duckfoot blades for clearing saplings (1" diameter or less), and the Y-blades for grasses, but I thought I read here that the duckfoot blades give a nice appearance to lawns. Does it make sense to spring for both set of knifes, based on the application? Also, should the tractor have turf tires or industrial ones?

Another issue is how to handle the unpacking and setup of the flail when it gets delivered by the liftgate truck to the top of my gravel driveway.

Any comments, advice, and/or suggestions would all be appreciated. Now I need to convince my wife that spending $15K+- on the pair is money well spent.

 

[LMychajluk]

Pay for the Liftgate service for delivery of the flail, cut the straps from the pallet, then back the tractor up to it and hook up the 3pt. At most you should only need to put the pins in the mower to move it, and then you can finish any setup tasks at your garage.

I don't think you need the height position control w/ the flail. It's more for implements that are suspended from the 3pt. You should be able to adjust the cutting height of the flail on the flail itself.

You might want the front end weights w/o a loader.

If the fields have any soft/muddy patches, you'll probably want the Industrial tires. For a tractor the size of what you're looking at, they shouldn't be too hard on the turf. Turf tires are for manicured lawns.

Don't count out the Kioti CK2510 for your needs. 19.5hp @ the PTO if you go with the manual (which could be fine for mowing mostly open fields), or 19hp for the HST version. Try both. And if you do get the loader it should be able to lift the flail off the truck, though if you have no other use for it I wouldn't bother. Kioti's HQ is in your area as well.

If you do get the belly mower, consider that you may also need the mid-PTO, which may be an additional $800-1000. I like the idea of the flail, and I think either set of blades would be fine.

 

[jeff9366]

So I am a complete newbie, never even owned a riding mower.

Unless your pastures are rut, bump and hole free, the dinky wheels on a subcompact tractor will give you a bucking bronco ride which will slow your mowing.

For nine acres in retirement I would not be without a Front End Loader. Think of the Loader as a powered wheelbarrow.


Heavier tractors are built on larger frames with larger wheels/tires. Heavier tractors with large diameter tires have more tractive power pulling ground contact implements, pushing a loader bucket into dirt and pushing snow. Larger wheels and tires mean more ground clearance, enabling a heavier tractor to bridge holes, ruts and downed tree limbs with less bucking, yielding a less disturbing passage over rough ground.


Here is a mowing calculator. I hate mowing in hot months. With a 48" mower, nine acres at 1-3/4 mph will take more than ELEVEN uncomfortable hours. With larger wheels 2-1/2 mph is reasonable with a 60" mower = 6.5 hours mowing time.

Mowing Calcuator | How many acres can I mow in an hour

 

[mddorange]

:welcome:
To TBN Jerik. You came to the right place to get answers.

Yes, we love to spend other people's money but I would go with Jeff on the larger tractor with FEL and 4WD is a must.

You will be surprised how quickly you will need the other feature of a larger tractor.

 

[ericm979]

Don't get a subcompact. Get a loader. And 4wd unless your place is flat and the ground never gets muddy or slippery. If you're mowing most of the 9 acres I'd recommend a compact large and powerful enough to run a 5' mower. It doesn't cost that much more and it'll be so much more pleasant to run.

Woodmaxx's PTO minimums on their wood chippers are too low. The 8" chipper I have has a minimum PTO HP of 19hp but with my 32 PTO HP I have to choke the feed down to a crawl when chipping material over 6". I would not be surprised if they do something similar with the flail. So take that lower HP requirment with a grain of salt... flail design is pretty much the same everywhere (gearbox, shaft, belts, rotor). They can't beat physics.

 

[Tractorable]

Jerik, take a step back and let us help you through these decisions. You've come to the right place. Lots of knowledgeable folks here.

Rethink the choice of a sub-compact. Rethink the choice of a flail mower on a sub-compact for mowing nine acres. Rethink the choice of not getting a loader.

 

[LS Tractor Owner]

I wouldn't dismiss a subcompact, but would definitely get a FEL...once you have one you won't believe you lived without one. I have a 25hp SCUT, and use a 6' finish mower on 5 acres ( I used to cut it w/ a 54" cut garden tractor). It's not manicured grass, just field grass, no trees or saplings to cut. I never let it get real tall, then there would be difficulty cutting it. The SCUT was a real step up from the garden tractor. I too had a very limited budget in order to get the subcompact tractor. I too, have more time to devote to tractor time, I enjoy mowing, and using the tractor. All this said, I would never be without a FEL again.

I'm able to maneuver into tight spaces, still attach many different implements, grade my driveway, and and do a host of different things I normally had to do by hand. Plus, it fits in my normal sized garage.

There are a lot of other manufacturers out there also, such as Mahindra, Kioti, LS, and TYM, Rural King. I would recommend at least looking at / considering those. There may be considerable price differences. Would I buy a SCUT again? You bet!

 

[mike69440]

Sub Compact with their tiny tires will not be very comfortable or safe in a field. They are for yards, not rough Acreage. FEL is essential. I suggest small CUT. B2650 size or More HP is better.

 

[vvanders]

+1 to all that is said here.

I'd also add that you might want a tad more hp to drive the flail. We've got the 5ft caroni and the 1500(~ 20hp) does occasionally bog on super lush grass.

Don't underestimate how useful a FEL is. Wouldn't own a tractor without one.

How comfortable are you with wrenching on things? We picked up our Ford 1500 for ~5k and you can probably find something similar if you don't mind wrenching on occasion.

 

[GirlWhoWantsTractor]

An outside-the-box idea for you to consider. If you don't need the 9 open acres to graze stock, or plan to have it hayed, why not carve out a small lawn area plus some walking paths and let the rest revert to natural meadow? Great for birds, butterflies and other critters. That way you can keep the smaller areas groomed with a smaller, much less expensive mower.

You can still have the meadows bush-hogged once a year to prevent tree growth, if that's what you want, and still be money ahead and use the money to take a vacation, and all those hours you would have spent mowing to go fishing or take up painting.

 

[scaredychicken]

To me it sounds like mowing fairly level acreage is the primary task.

Personally I would move into a compact tractor (25-30 hp ... bigger better) but because you are not going with a F E Loader, my question becomes ... why buy a tractor at all? Flail mowers may be great, but they extend out beyond the tractor pulling unit.

Have you considered perhaps a zero-turn mower instead ? The cut width can be comparable, and you don't have any extra machinery. You ride atop the mower (stadiums and golf courses use these mowers a lot). If going new, get the biggest engine and mower that the budget allows.
eg> OR Ventrac Mowers etc. - also great on any slopes. and the articulated design means that they are great for tight corners.
Check out the commercial zero-turn mowers before you buy anything. Not what I needed, but I did seriously check them out last summer.

Video - Ventrac 34 - Not Your Average Mower

all the best.

 

[jeff9366]

Subcompact tractors are considered 'A' grade turf finish mowers but only 'D' grade field tractors.

Powering a Flail is field work.

You need more tractor than a Subcompact.



There are numerous previously owned compact tractors for sale via eBay, near Zip Code 28730.
LINK: -mower in Industrial Tractors | eBay

 

[majorwager]

Jeffy,
Where did you discover this grading system for tractors?

And, do you actually mow at 2 mph?

 

[LMychajluk]

Jeffy,
Where did you discover this grading system for tractors?
...

Also curious...

 

[Grandad4]

Well, the advice is all over the lot on this one, isn't it? Yes to subcompact, no to subcompact, yes to flail, no to flail, etc.
I used both a large compact and a subcut for mowing on a similar field-type property for more than a decade. Of course a subcompact can do that work! In fact, we ended up using the little one for most of the mowing even though it took longer and you did get bounced around a bit more. You DON'T need to keep a subcompact on a smooth-as-glass lawn in spite of what some skeptics say! If your property was mowed periodically (typical hayfield, for example), the little subcompacts get along just fine. Does a larger tractor roll over a divot or rut smoother? Of course. And it will eat much heavier brush with ease and you can cover more ground.

We mowed with a belly mower on the subcompact and a bush hog type cutter on the big tractor. The little one was always set as high as possible - something like 4" - and the cutter was maybe 6". The grass looked beautiful when mowed either way.

I can understand your need to keep costs down. Everyone has some kind of budget to live with. For that reason, I'd suggest you consider a standard rotary cutter instead of a flail. Some people really like flails, but they are clearly a "specialty" tool and not nearly as common as rotary cutters. Going with a conventional rotary mower will cost less initially and will need less upkeep.

The advice about getting a loader with your tractor is sound. Loaders are by far the handiest additions to a tractor. That's why those used tractors you looked at had loaders. The loader also adds greatly to the resale value and marketability of your tractor.

So I'd tell you to keep looking for a subcompact if your budget requires it, pass on a flail mower and use the savings to configure your tractor with a loader. Free advice worth every penny! And go out and kick some tires and take some test drives! You'll learn more in 15 minutes than you would in hours of reading and doing spreadsheets of specifications.

 

[Gary Fowler]

I would go for a B series Kubota or other similar sized in a different brand and just get a rear finish mower. It will do all that the flail will do for your pasture. I don't think you will find the pricing a whole lot more than the BX. I would go with R4 tires over the turfs for anything that is possibly a bit soft to travel over. We had a JD 750 with turfs and it wouldn't pull a slight hill on wet grass especially if you needed to turn while doing it.

Don't forget to check the LS brand if you have a dealer near by. I saved a ton of money (well actually I paid the same but got twice the HP tractor) by buying LS over Kubota.

As someone mentioned, a commercial or near commercial grade of zero turn might work well for you too. I have a 7 foot mower for my 70 HP tractor and I can mow my pasture quicker with my 52" zero turn Ferris IS700 mower AND get up against the trees and even mow under some trees that I just cant get to with the big tractor.
The top speed for my mower is 9.9 MPH but I cant go that fast in the pasture due to it being too rough but I do manage about 6 MPH which is about all I can do with the tractor without hitting my head on top of the cab.

If you are sure you wont buy a FEL on your tractor, then heavily consider just getting a good zero turn. You can get a good 60" ZT mower with air ride suspension seat for less than the BX cost with your choice of mower type. You can then mow that 9 acres in a couple of hours easily. If all you are looking to do is mow, then get a machine that specializes in mowing.

 

[WVH1977]

If you don't want a loader this tractor is in your area and would make a fine mowing machine. Hard to beat these 3930's.

393 Ford Tractor low hrs 3cyl Diesel runs great Brand new tires - farm & garden - by owner - sale

 

[Tractorable]

If you don't want a loader this tractor is in your area and would make a fine mowing machine. Hard to beat these 3930's.

393 Ford Tractor low hrs 3cyl Diesel runs great Brand new tires - farm & garden - by owner - sale

Whew! Lordy, I love them Ford 3910's and 3930's. Bush Hoggin' machines. I might have to drive down there myself and get me that...

 

[Jerik]

Thank you to all the responders. Based on all your feedback, I'm going to move up to a B series with a FEL (maybe that's why I see a bunch of used subcompacts with relatively low hours the owners get them and decide they're not big enough). I don't think the pastures have lots of ruts but the point about the bucking bronco ride from Jeff is well taken. We'll need to do a bunch of mulching, and the FEL will make it a lot cheaper and easier to get a bulk delivery rather than picking up the bags from Home Depot, which we've been doing in the past. Same thing with manure for the garden. I don't think I'll be using the FEL all that much, so are there any reasons besides cost to decide on the size of the bucket?

Still planning to go with the flail for the safety, cut, mulching, noise, maneuverability, and storage needs, but bumping up the width to a 5-footer. To vvanders comment, I'm fine with a little bogging down doing super lush grass, and if need be, I can just slow down. And it looks like I can get the Caroni from Agri Supply faster than the 3+ weeks for the WoodMaxx.

Leaning towards the B2601 over the B2650. Going out this morning to actually look at them.

 

[Tractorable]

Good call. A B-series will be much more suitable to your property and tasks.