Kubota L3200 stalled after running kerosine

[lockmedic]

Hi gang.

I've come here a lot as a result of Google searches but have never found a need to start a post until now.

Been a rough weekend here. Put in 2500 feet of buried dog fence wire using a subsoiler across rough terrain, 1 paved driveway crossing, and bushogging 2 acres of more rough terrain. Saw briers galore. . and found a yellowjacket nest.

Anyway worked all day yesterday without issue. Shut down as I was running low on fuel last night. Needed to work about 30 minutes more this morning so rather than run into town and buy more diesel I thought I'd just throw in a couple of gallons of Kerosene I had left from the garage heater this winter. Stored indoors in a sealed container, no water in it.

I've run kero in lots of diesels in winter over the years without adverse effects, figured this would be fine for what little I had to do. In hindsight that was a terrible idea. I'm an idiot, I'll admit it. If I had to guess I'd say the mix was about 80% kero, 20% diesel.

I filled up and the started my circular pattern around what I had to mow. I made it about 200 feet in and on an uphill section it stalled. Wouldn't restart.

I completely drained the tank and changed the filter, and drained the lines up to the fuel pump. Figured I'd just bleed out the rest by cranking.

It took a good 5-10 minutes to restart giving the starter a minute to rest with 20 secs of cranking. Smoked a bunch and it took 20-30 seconds for all the cylinders to come in but it eventually ran smooth. Continued mowing.

Same place in the mowing pattern (slightly uphill), it sputtered, smoked, and stalled again.

I hopped off, cursed, grabbed the machete and finished the weed wacking the old way.

Came back once it had cooled off, pulled the line off the pump and drained some more fuel (in case it had sucked up a lump of kero or water or something) and tried restarting. Same process, again it took a while and coughed/smoked but eventually ran smooth.

Started mowing again. Same thing. . .a few minutes of running and almost exactly the same place in the pattern it starts to cough and sputter. This time I lift the brushcutter up and point it downhill so it'll at least roll onto the trailer if I have to take it in or get it to the workshop.

I fear the worst, like I've worn out some critical part in the injection pump ($$$).

Thoughts? I have not tried bleeding the injector lines (yet).

 

[arto98607]

uch:

I would remove the fuel tank & filter(s) and clean thoroughly/replace again and bleed the injector lines.
You may be getting air into the system?

 

[mddorange]

:welcome:
To the TBN forum Lockmedic. This is a great place to get help on anything.

Enjoy.

 

[Agvg]

Does you have a good flow of diesel when it stops? Can it be engine temp related?

 

[thepumpguysc]

The pump is a lot tougher than the injectors.. I would presume the injectors got hot from lack of lube in fuel & probably swelled/over heated & blued the tips.
Its a guess tho, seen it afew x before. All you can do is flush the system, refill w/ GOOD DIESEL FUEL & bleed the system & see what it does.

 

[lockmedic]

Thanks mddorange et. al.,

Could be temp related but I sorta doubt it. AFAIK it's still a super simple diesel engine that just needs fuel, air and compression to run.

thepumpguysc: good to know. The injectors are a heck of a lot cheaper than the pump.

I have new, clean, good fuel flow to the low pressure pump. I can unhook the line and get gravity flow through the filter. I should be able to tell if the injector pump is doing its job by cracking the lines at the injector. . . so if bleeding the lines doesn't work I suppose I'll pull and check the injectors. I *think* we still have a pump/injector shop here in knox. . . they can be bench tested for flow and spray pattern I take it?

 

[diesel85]

Every time I hear people running kerosene in diesel engines these days I cringe. There is no lubricity in kerosene. To me, it's like running parts cleaner through a diesel engine.

There's someone at my work that swears by mixing kerosene in diesel, even during the summer in a brand new BX. I told them not to, but they said their "farmer buddies" told'em they been doing it for years in their diesel tractors.

At least when they have an early wear related issue, I'll be the first to tell them, I told ya so.

 

[4570Man]

So what’s their claimed advantage in doing it in the summer time?

 

[diesel85]

It's funny you ask... they shrug and tell me the same line: their "farmer buddies" told'em they been doing it for years in their diesel tractors.

 

[4570Man]

It's funny you ask... they shrug and tell me the same line: their "farmer buddies" told'em they been doing it for years in their diesel tractors.

I doubt that unless having a 8n ford and a garden counts as a farmer. Even if it runs fine and doesn’t screw anything up kerosene is $5 a gallon. There’s plenty of people pouring atf in diesel ( the idea is probably right regardless if atf if the right way to get there ). Then this idiot is burning half kerosene.

 

[lockmedic]

Mine was definitely a case of 'haste makes waste'.

I'd promised the GF I'd help her with some maintenance at her office at 10:30, was trying to get the mowing done before pulling off to do that. Didn't want to waste time going to town if I had enough of a suitable fuel at home. . . lesson learned for sure. Now I have a broken tractor and still didn't get the mowing done and it's a day later.

Anyway, yeah, kerosene is bad in diesel tractors. Tell your farmer buddies. Not that they'll listen.

My day job is locksmith and trust me, I've seen lots of old-timer advice dispensed and followed relative to my trade with equally disastrous results. I should know better, but i'd gotten away with it before. . .

 

[diesel85]

They aren't my farmer buddies... and not my tractor. lol

After working on engines (both gas and diesel) since I was a young lad, I know better. Especially how sensitive the silicon/rubber seals are on the newer machines, including the super high tolerances. No way will I ever put anything into my tanks (gas/diesel) that doesn't say it will work in that fuel type, and even then, I am very cautious.

I am a locksmith too on as my side-business... I know exactly what you mean.

 

[JWR]

Locksmith: As you describe it, you only ran the L3200 a short time, like maybe an hour all told or less, before having problems. Granted that an 80/20 kerosene/#2 mix is not a good idea, neither is it going to kill your engine in an hour or two. With near certainty you had something in that kerosene you added that you do not know about. No idea what it was, nor does it matter. Just clean everything out thoroughly (as you have almost already done) , make sure you have good clean fresh fuel up to and past the lst filter. Then run it for quite a while (long enough to make sure whatever the impurities were are cleared out of the injection pump, the injectors, etc.) Bythe way, #1 fuel oil = kerosene does not have zero lubrication characteristics, it is just not as good as the #2. I'm betting that if you really get it thoroughly cleaned out you will have no long term damage or worries. Most people have no way to get fuel analyzed but it would be neat to find out what all was really in that kerosene you added. Chances are that droplet size of whatever goo you accidentally added is not making it through your injection system. You may end up having to take loose the injectors and make very sure each line is squirting a good stream.

I do not (so far) believe you have a serious crisis

 

[JohnBuffaloMN]

Stopping at the same spot over and over implies some sort of mechanical issue interjected into this... at least to me.

 

[JWR]

Every time I hear people running kerosene in diesel engines these days I cringe. There is no lubricity in kerosene. To me, it's like running parts cleaner through a diesel engine. ... , but they said their "farmer buddies" told'em they been doing it for years in their diesel tractors. At least when they have an early wear related issue, I'll be the first to tell them, I told ya so.

diesel85: I have to disagree about #1 fuel oil lacking lubricity. See http://biodiesel.org/docs/ffs-performace_usage/lubricity-benefits.pdf?sfvrsn=4 On pp. 3 of that article is a table showing the lubricity of various percent biodiesel as it affects #1 and #2 fuels. For our purposes here, our interest is only the top row in the table (at 0.0% biodiesel) and the HFRR Scar depth in microns is listed for both #1 and #2. The HFRR "scar depth" is a standardized depth of scaring on a specific metal by a specific test tool at controlled speeds, time duration, etc. in other words an industry standardized way to measure the effectiveness of various liquids in lubricity. The numbers are in microns (millionths of an inch.)

Bottom line is that #2 fuel gives 536 microns of scar depth in the same test conditions where #1 (kerosene) gives 671 microns of scar depth. The important thing to note is that the scar depth is not an absolute but rather an excellent RELATIVE measure. So the #1 fuel gives about 25% deeper scars compared to #2 fuel. Not overwhelming, not abusive, not a big deal.

Yes, there is less lubricity in#1 compared to #2 -- about 25% -- but it is not catastrophic and certainly not going to seriously damage someone's injection pump or injectors in a short period of time.

 

[MessickFarmEqu]

It's funny you ask... they shrug and tell me the same line: their "farmer buddies" told'em they been doing it for years in their diesel tractors.

Kero today, and engines today are not the same as they where years ago. You can mess stuff up really fast using Kero.

 

[ruffdog]

Every time I hear people running kerosene in diesel engines these days I cringe. There is no lubricity in kerosene. To me, it's like running parts cleaner through a diesel engine.

There's someone at my work that swears by mixing kerosene in diesel, even during the summer in a brand new BX. I told them not to, but they said their "farmer buddies" told'em they been doing it for years in their diesel tractors.

At least when they have an early wear related issue, I'll be the first to tell them, I told ya so.

The fuel was much different "back in the day". (so were the engines)

 

[thepumpguysc]

Enough w/ the lubrication..
IF he has fuel UP TO the inj. pump & nothing out.. guess what??
If fuel IS pumping out of the pump.. take 1 or more injectors out of the block.. turn them up, spin the engine & SEE if they're squirting.. SIMPLE AS THAT..
STAY AWAY from the spray.!!

 

[diesel85]

Kero today, and engines today are not the same as they where years ago. You can mess stuff up really fast using Kero.

Exactly. I would never think of putting a drop of kero in a DPF system...

That's why I was shocked when they told me... brand new BX and running kero and diesel in the summer because their "farmer buddies" told them it was good for it.

Don't care, it's not my machine... my BX2200 gets straight up diesel, with a tiny bit of the gray bottle Power Service after every oil change... been running that since we bought it in 2002.

 

[dodge man]

I agree I do not think running kerosene that short of time hurt it. I am also betting it had some water or dirt.

A BX, new or older is still pretty basic and forgiving of fuel. They have no emissions systems. Running kerosene does not make sense except in the winter mainly because it costs more