Flail Mower Grass getting sucked through the bearings on Mott F5

[jthibodeau89]

You need to place the outboard side of the outer race on a reference surface and measure the height of the inboard side of the inner race to compare the 2 bearings. It appears that the inner race protrudes above the shield more, but that doesn't necessarily mean the bearing width is different. Need data.

 

[goatchay]

You need to place the outboard side of the outer race on a reference surface and measure the height of the inboard side of the inner race to compare the 2 bearings. It appears that the inner race protrudes above the shield more, but that doesn't necessarily mean the bearing width is different. Need data.

Will do, very good point. Hopefully they will work and I will have the mower back assembled soon.

 

[KWentling]

If you have intentions of greasing that bearing, stick with the shielded one. It will allow a little grease out so you know when to stop with the grease gun. A sealed bearing will pop the seal out if you over grease, and you won't know until it's too late. The lower the "C" number, the less internal clearance. C2 would be typically used in a high speed application or where precise locating is important. The bearing you have is no doubt a C3 and will be fine.

 

[Coyote machine]

Hi Goatchay,
The pic of the plugs helps. I would have done the same as far as filling. If you look at where the shaft is and the lower small square plug is in relation to it, that plug likely would represent the lowest point that gear oil should drop to with use. The next plug up, the one you filled to would cover the gears and the bath/splash would also allow for expansion inside the gearcase withOUT blowing out any seals.
I was earlier suggesting the small square top plug might have been the vent plug, got lost and then was replaced with the standard square one now in place.
Or maybe your model never had a vent, just two small plugs?

For the split collar, I was thinking about clearances. If you could get a collar that was close to the overall diameter and wasn't too wide, a suitable sized thin washer sandwiched between the bearing outer race and the split collar could prevent the grass issue. This solution might depend on whether there is built in side to side play in the shaft. Since I suspect you do not plan to remove the shaft to do the bearing work, you might have to cut the thin washer and attach the pieces to the split collar, then move it into place against the bearing race.

BTW, Coyote Machine refers to my Kioti tractor, one of the best brands on Earth! I am of course, familiar with the other type coyotes, they are less popular with most people. :confused3:
One other suggestion re the numerous pics- consider adding a brief description to what each pic represents or what you're trying to show us- unless completely obvious.

 

[leonz]

Hello goatchay,


You can mow in reverse with the mower on the ground and reduce the chance of wrapping the tall Bermuda grass and brush around the flail mower rotor on the first pass.

You will have to be diligent in checking for brush wrapped around the flail mower rotor until you have everything knocked down.

You will see that more brush is left unmowed if and when the brush wrapping around the rotor occurs.

NO worries we are here for you just mow in reverse for while until you can get a few wide laps around the acreage and then you can mow in half cuts much more easily to shred the brush even finer.

 

[goatchay]

If you have intentions of greasing that bearing, stick with the shielded one. It will allow a little grease out so you know when to stop with the grease gun. A sealed bearing will pop the seal out if you over grease, and you won't know until it's too late. The lower the "C" number, the less internal clearance. C2 would be typically used in a high speed application or where precise locating is important. The bearing you have is no doubt a C3 and will be fine.

Sorry for the delay in responding and/or updating. I appreciate everyone's continued advice on this. I wanted to slap a quick coat of paint on the pulleys and parts that I have removed, bearing covers, etc, so I've had all of that soaking with some carburetor parts in a 5 gallon bucket of solvent.

In the meantime, I'v been trying to swap out the blades. I can see now why my Dad would always complain when he had to change the blades on the yellow Mott lol. It's is certainly tedious. And because I have so much removed and the cutter shaft is just sitting in there, I left it hooked up to the tractor vs disconnecting it and flipping it over. So I'm doing it on my back. One good thing is that the original cotter pins are very long and skinny, not much more that an big paper clip. So I can squeeze them shut and push them out with my fingers. The replacement ones are much more stout and the new clevis pins have correspondingly bigger holes.

KWentling, thanks so much for the advice. The bearing supply that I have access to only had the ones that are identical to the original ones, one side shielded and the other open. They said that they could get double shielded but not double sealed. I do prefer the ability to be able to grease them, although at this point I just want to put on whatever will survive/alleviate the grass wrap for this first mow if something else were available. As it stands now, I am just going to install these and cross my fingers, assuming that the inner race doesn't create a clearance issue with the seal washer....I haven't had a chance to mic/measure it yet.

Thanks for the reassurance that the C3 will be adequate, I appreciate the peace of mind on that matter.

 

[goatchay]

Hi Goatchay,
The pic of the plugs helps. I would have done the same as far as filling. If you look at where the shaft is and the lower small square plug is in relation to it, that plug likely would represent the lowest point that gear oil should drop to with use. The next plug up, the one you filled to would cover the gears and the bath/splash would also allow for expansion inside the gearcase withOUT blowing out any seals.
I was earlier suggesting the small square top plug might have been the vent plug, got lost and then was replaced with the standard square one now in place.
Or maybe your model never had a vent, just two small plugs?

For the split collar, I was thinking about clearances. If you could get a collar that was close to the overall diameter and wasn't too wide, a suitable sized thin washer sandwiched between the bearing outer race and the split collar could prevent the grass issue. This solution might depend on whether there is built in side to side play in the shaft. Since I suspect you do not plan to remove the shaft to do the bearing work, you might have to cut the thin washer and attach the pieces to the split collar, then move it into place against the bearing race.

BTW, Coyote Machine refers to my Kioti tractor, one of the best brands on Earth! I am of course, familiar with the other type coyotes, they are less popular with most people. :confused3:
One other suggestion re the numerous pics- consider adding a brief description to what each pic represents or what you're trying to show us- unless completely obvious.

Hi Coyote Machine,

Thanks for the confirmation about the gearbox oil level. I may have misunderstood you in regards to the vent plug. I assumed that the large top/fill plug would be the one that would be vented. The large top/fill plug and the large drain plug both just had a dimple on the bottom side, no holes or anything. Kind of like it would be magnetic but I didn't check. Maybe the top one was replaced with another magnetic one from another mower? Or maybe it's just not vented? The smaller square plugs were solid plugs also, no venting.

I have looked closer at the shaft and I there is just no clearance at all for the split collar solution unfortunately. I wish there were because it's a great idea and also the easiest to implement. And I found one online that would be the right diameter. But it doesn't look feasible.

I didn't realize that your name referred to the tractor, sorry about that! I love Kiotis and researched them a couple of years ago. I would love to have one. Only one dealer in all of Louisiana though. Although that wouldn't stop me from owning one. It's just finances. I have an old Yanmar that the flail mower came on. I'm borrowing a friend's JD 3720 for this mowing attempt.

Thanks for the suggestion also about the pics, I appreciate it. I realize that I haven't been doing it in the most informative manner. I need to educate myself on how to put them within a message instead of at the end, and also how to add a description etc.

Thanks again!

 

[goatchay]

Hello goatchay,


You can mow in reverse with the mower on the ground and reduce the chance of wrapping the tall Bermuda grass and brush around the flail mower rotor on the first pass.

You will have to be diligent in checking for brush wrapped around the flail mower rotor until you have everything knocked down.

You will see that more brush is left unmowed if and when the brush wrapping around the rotor occurs.

NO worries we are here for you just mow in reverse for while until you can get a few wide laps around the acreage and then you can mow in half cuts much more easily to shred the brush even finer.

Hi Leon! Hope you had a good weekend. Thanks a lot for the suggestion about mowing in reverse! I didn't know that doing that would alleviate the chance of wrapping the Bahia grass, I assumed it would just wrap in the other direction? I can certainly do that especially in some of the thicker areas.

I am still brainstorming about a mechanical solution. I guess the only thing that is practical and that I would have clearance for is to weld on a spur as Thibodeau suggested. But I have changed so much, in terms of the larger knives, larger cotter pins, new bearings etc that if I have a weird vibration when I start it back up, I would like to have as few variables as possible to eliminate in terms of diagnosing the vibration. So I think that I will hold off on adding anything to the shaft for the moment. Hopefully the new knives will help a lot in reducing the chance for grass wrap.

I am shooting for getting everything reassembled tmw and giving it a shot.

Do you have any opinion on mowing with the mower raised up off of the ground initially, held up by the hitch instead of resting on the roller?

Flange bearing seems fine btw so I will leave that alone for now. j

Thanks again and hope everyone is having a good weekend!

Chris

 

[jthibodeau89]

Got my AGCO 5670 back in service today. Here are pics of the end of my JD390 rotor shaft. You can see that the end of the rotor is recessed into a collar on the end plate. The spur is simply a bolt through a tab welded to the rotor. In your case I think you could drill through the end counterweight. Since you have increased the blade mass, you will actually need a little more offset weight on the end of the rotor to compensate.

I need to run the pressure washer on the mower. I ran it through the bank of my pond on the day my tractor blew the steering cylinder. It's been parked until today. Will wash it tomorrow. I cut a few acres of 4' high johnson grass and mixed broad leaf weeds this evening. I continue to be amazed with how well this thing cuts.

 

[leonz]

Got my AGCO 5670 back in service today. Here are pics of the end of my JD390 rotor shaft. You can see that the end of the rotor is recessed into a collar on the end plate. The spur is simply a bolt through a tab welded to the rotor. In your case I think you could drill through the end counterweight. Since you have increased the blade mass, you will actually need a little more offset weight on the end of the rotor to compensate.

I need to run the pressure washer on the mower. I ran it through the bank of my pond on the day my tractor blew the steering cylinder. It's been parked until today. Will wash it tomorrow. I cut a few acres of 4' high Johnson grass and mixed broad leaf weeds this evening. I continue to be amazed with how well this thing cuts. View attachment 568403View attachment 568404View attachment 568406

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I am so glad it is working well for you. you have a mower that will work for years with no issues and if and when you need to to change the bearings the bolts used to clear any wrapped material will come out easily for you after you clean the threads of the bolt.

Do not forget to drain the gearbox if you plan on putting the mower on its back to wash it. Wear a rain coat or poncho as your going to need it due to the water blowing back at you. If you have a full face shield that will help you while washing it. I do not know how much the full face shields that have a compression band to the fit the wearer cost now.


Happy mowing.