Container Weld Shop build -

BukitCase · Sep 3, 2018

"I like your night patrol team, they would sure scare me. You have to keep them on a chain or are they well trained to stay away from the road or mischief?"

No chains - the entire 10 acres is field fenced, top third (where all buildings and/or "goodies" are is controlled by the dogs. They all know what's theirs and what's NOT...

The OTHER female Dobie was elsewhere when that previous pic was shot, the black/rust dog in that one is Dominic, a 140 lb. male Rottweiler who doesn't even like it when PLANES fly over - grandkids, family (and friends, when I'm home) are fine; I once moved a trailer to a "new" place, it took him just under a MONTH to decide that was "OK" :thumbsup:

Here's the OTHER female Dobie, inside the gated area between house and the circle driveway - (the TEMPORARY lookin' stuff is just that, til I get far enough ahead to build a 3-bay 32x40 garage there - one bay with 12' tall door)

note the "modified" tube gates? She "knows" that the circle driveway is still "hers", and before I added the heavy "horse wire" between tubes I watched her (more than ONCE) jump toward those gates, rotate her entire body SIDEWAYS in mid-air, slip thru BETWEEN the tubes, and LAND ON HER FEET so she could "greet" the UPS guy

- I was there at the time, and she ALSO knows I'm always happy when the brown truck stops, so she REALLY WAS just gonna GREET him - still, if you're NOT a "Dobie person", and maybe HAVE seen the movie "Cujo"

Not much going on with the containers yet, my container guy's 'sposed to get down here this week to move the two hi-cubes, then I can tweak 'em into place and get the "graduated Mega-Lego blocks" under 'em so they'll be level - meantime, "life is the crap that happens to ya while yer busy makin' plans" seems to be the order of the day(s) - got a cord of dry fir in the shed, 3 more of Oak/Maple should be here in about a week, then my house insurance informed me they wouldn't renew til I fixed a couple "major" problems (one is moss on the shop roof

The other is yet to be explained, but with a Dec.8 DEADLINE - typical bureaucratic BS, but not much choice since it'll be a couple more years til it's paid off...

Oh, and with me pretty much EVERY day is "labor" day; guess it beats boredom, altho it's been so long I'm not sure I'd RECOGNIZE it

- later... Steve

Oldpath05 · Sep 3, 2018

Well I did a little laboring today, first rehooked up the stove pipe to my rebuilt wood stove, sure dont need it today at 90*.

Then hook up an HF air filter about 20' ft away from compressor, from what I here hear that's the minimal distance>>>>> 3/8 In. Air Filter with Regulator

Then I went back in the house wait for the PVC glue to dry and debate whither or not I should of bought a 1/2" air filter, another one of those things that I just dont know. Anyways hope it works cause for the past few years I just get way to much water out of my compressor when using air tools. I drain the compressor about every other month but not much water comes out, more water comes out of my air tools then the tank, is it too much to ask for water free air.............If it dont work I'll throw a fit or throw a hammer so if you see an extra hammer in your door yard it's mine.

BukitCase · Sep 3, 2018

Compressing makes air HOT - (otherwise diesel engines wouldn't work :laughing

Hot air holds a LOT more moisture than cold air, so -
All that moisture laden air gets past your tank and into the lines,'specially during heavy use -
The further the wet air gets from the compressor, the cooler it gets -
Cool air has a "lower dewpoint", so now the air can't hold as much water, so -
The cooler water drops out into the hose on the way to your tools, so -
Continuing to use the tools causes that fast-moving air to CARRY (NOT absorb) the water in the hoses along with the air...

A filter HELPS some, but the only SURE way is to COOL the air BEFORE you use it - things like inter-coolers and AFTER-coolers actually WORK, but ain't cheap or easy fixes -

Til I get a few dozen more alligators clubbed, I'm in the same boat - right now my DevAire 5 horse 80 gal. has a built-in intercooler, an electric tank drain set to run 20 seconds every 20 minutes,

Electronic Automatic Tank Drain for Air Compressors - Air Compressor Accessories - Amazon.com

and one of these on the main output
Astro 2618 Air Control Unit, 12cfm Capacity - Air Compressor Accessories - Amazon.com

There's another one of those, along with one of these

Motor Guard M-1-KIT 1/2 NPT Clean Air Filter Kit - Air Compressor Accessories - Amazon.com

On my plasma cart -

Along with an onboard regulator to drop the compressor's 170# output down to 100 so the plasma doesn't get too excited

And MOST of that stuff probably wouldn't be NECESSARY, if I finally got that "round tuit" goin' and did a proper after-cooler setup

- but at least, I don't hafta worry about remembering to empty the compressor tank, and the autodrain only adds about an hour per day of run time (which in my normal day is small taters :=) ... Steve

Oldpath05 · Sep 3, 2018

Ok before I throw my hammer, is there better teflon tape or something, what would you do?(On my budget) I first had my son wrap the tape 5 times around that brass fitting that goes into that plastic coupling, guess that's what it's called. Both connections failed when the air pressure was brought up, they started leaking so took them apart and tried 7 wraps and one still leaked, so then I took that apart and used some Permatex sealant for hydraulic fittings, then I read for how long it takes for that to set, 4 hr. Then I read excellent for sealing bla bla bla...... but not recommended for plastic, GOOD GRIEF, so I left it for the night and almost ready to throw a hammer, this ain't rocket science,,,,,,, or is it..........................

Oldpath05 · Sep 3, 2018

BukitCase said:
Compressing makes air HOT - (otherwise diesel engines wouldn't work :laughing
Hot air holds a LOT more moisture than cold air, so -
All that moisture laden air gets past your tank and into the lines,'specially during heavy use -
The further the wet air gets from the compressor, the cooler it gets -
Cool air has a "lower dewpoint", so now the air can't hold as much water, so -
The cooler water drops out into the hose on the way to your tools, so -
Continuing to use the tools causes that fast-moving air to CARRY (NOT absorb) the water in the hoses along with the air...

A filter HELPS some, but the only SURE way is to COOL the air BEFORE you use it - things like inter-coolers and AFTER-coolers actually WORK, but ain't cheap or easy fixes -

Til I get a few dozen more alligators clubbed, I'm in the same boat - right now my DevAire 5 horse 80 gal. has a built-in intercooler, an electric tank drain set to run 20 seconds every 20 minutes,

Electronic Automatic Tank Drain for Air Compressors - Air Compressor Accessories - Amazon.com

and one of these on the main output
Astro 2618 Air Control Unit, 12cfm Capacity - Air Compressor Accessories - Amazon.com

There's another one of those, along with one of these

Motor Guard M-1-KIT 1/2 NPT Clean Air Filter Kit - Air Compressor Accessories - Amazon.com

On my plasma cart -
View attachment 569626

Along with an onboard regulator to drop the compressor's 170# output down to 100 so the plasma doesn't get too excited

And MOST of that stuff probably wouldn't be NECESSARY, if I finally got that "round tuit" goin' and did a proper after-cooler setup - but at least, I don't hafta worry about remembering to empty the compressor tank, and the autodrain only adds about an hour per day of run time (which in my normal day is small taters :=) ... Steve

Wow you got me at almost $300.00 for getting water out of my air line, can we rework the numbers a little..............like maybe one unit does all or most.

BukitCase · Sep 4, 2018

Sure - go here https://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/welding/349252-decent-moisture-separator.html
Ignore any post that does NOT talk about "franzinator" - pay particular attention to LOCATION and line lengths - this goes BETWEEN the compressor and its TANK, which makes it an INTER-COOLER.

Some of the info isn't totally clear; any questions, ask and I'll explain.

On your piping -
1. Using PVC pipe for air is NOT safe, you can get away with it if it will NEVER NEVER get bumped with ANYTHING bigger than a Q tip (only SLIGHTLY kidding) - PVC is fairly brittle, if it's under pressure and gets even a fairly small rock dropped on it, it becomes a PIPE BOMB, complete with SHRAPNEL - it does this with compressed air, exactly BECAUSE AIR is COMPRESSIBLE - so when the PVC is broken, all that high pressure AIR doesn't stop PUSHING til it's bled off; and in the process, any broken shards of plastic get LAUNCHED in all directions.

A buddy of mine thought I was being dramatic when I told him about this - he was pressure testing about 600 feet of 2" PVC before covering it up - all the pipe was laying at the bottom of the ditch, he had laid a 2x12 across the ditch in one place - had the pipe pressurized to 160 psi and valved off, idea being to watch a gauge and see if there were any leaks - he walked out on the plank across the ditch, and dislodged a rock about the size of a marble - the resulting EXPLOSION embedded PVC shrapnel in the plank he was walking on, and blew dirt and rocks all over the place...

If he HADN'T had that plank across the ditch there's a good chance it could've KILLED him...

In my opinion, if ANY of your PVC airline is ANYWHERE it can get bumped you should either build a plywood BOX over it or change it for galvanized or copper...

This "pipe bomb" thing does NOT happen when running LIQUIDS, because they're NOT COMPRESSIBLE (effectively) - so when a LIQUID carrying pipe (under pressure) breaks, the pressure IMMEDIATELY GOES TO ZERO, so there's no "propellant" to keep the broken pieces ACCELERATING...

Teflon tape - there's probably as many grades/thicknesses of it as there are opinions in your local bar at happy hour - if you use one of the heavier grades, 3 or 4 wraps are enough if it's DONE RIGHT -

1 - NEVER tape the 1 or 2 threads at the very end of the pipe - this can cut small shreds of teflon and let them get into the system (where they can plug small orifices or jam valves)

2 - ALWAYS wrap in the same direction the female fitting screws on - IOW, if the tape tries to come OFF you're wrapping it the WRONG way.

3 - for METAL fittings; brass, iron, stainless, etc - screw it together as tight as you possibly can by HAND, then wrenches for about 2 turns, more if the threads are still loose - stainless is a different animal; the stuff galls so easy you need to STOP when it feels like it's GONNA get tight (especially if the fitting needs to point a certain direction.)

4 - for PLASTIC (PVC) again, not the thin "see-thru" tape, 4 wraps is usually enough - the secret with PVC is to ONLY tighten FIRMLY BY HAND - any tighter and you'll probably CRACK the PVC, then NO AMOUNT of tape or swearing is gonna help.

In over 35 years of running PVC, black iron, galvanized, stainless, poly, copper, etc, I've maybe had 2 or 3 leaks doing it the above way - considering that's probably around 20 MILES of piping, 2 or 3 leaks ain't too bad... Steve

Oldpath05 · Sep 4, 2018

FranzinatorOh brother I first thought this was like the Gonkulator on Hogan's Heroes, maybe this is rocket science, this is definitely going above my pay grade that's for sure. I looked at the picture, the colored arrows shows air going in a 2" pipe and magically turning around and coming back out the same 2" pipe with a different color arrow, how about that, like Goma use to say>>Gooooolly.............

As of tonight the air seems to be holding, maybe that Permatex sealant welded the fitting together, it didn't blow apart yet. Several garages in my area use PVC, that stuff says it's rated to 600 psi. I put the thin white teflon tape at the very end and wound it on, no one told me to leave two threads showing. Dont I hate ALWAYS having to do something JUST right or wont work, my training has always been just throw it on there and throw it together, must be why I cant rebuild motors and cant stand capertery.

(stainless is a different animal; the stuff galls so easy you need to STOP when it feels like it's GONNA get tight (especially if the fitting needs to point a certain direction.)<<<<A guy at work told me the same thing last week about SS when I told him I had trouble with a SS bolt on my stove fix, I started backing the bolt out and then it stop like it instantly welded, I had to snap it to get it apart so tells me SS thread are indeed tricky to work with.

So what's your cost effective recommendation for pipe and size on 150 psi compressor, galvanized, copper or gold?

PS I'm also now having com troubles, my screen has become streeky on full size, had to narrow it down to see this forum, dont know whats going on mybe I have to get another Laptop.

dragoneggs · Sep 4, 2018

Oldpath05 said:
Franzinator

So what's your cost effective recommendation for pipe and size on 150 psi compressor, galvanized, copper or gold?

Just don't use PVC... other air line plastic pipe is okay but why not black or galvanized pipe. I know I will be going that route as I extend my air lines beyond just using the rubber flex hoses currently snaking all over the floor. Just isn't compatible with all my tools mounted on casters! :smiley_aafz:

BukitCase · Sep 6, 2018

"Several garages in my area use PVC, that stuff says it's rated to 600 psi."

It's NOT the PRESSURE itself that's the problem; it's the BRITTLE nature of PVC, and the way the pressure is RELEASED when it BREAKS.

When a pipe that's carrying LIQUID breaks, because liquids don't COMPRESS, the pressure that WAS there drops ALMOST IMMEDIATELY to ZERO so there's NO FORCE left to ACCELERATE any pieces to enough speed to be dangerous.

When a pipe that's carrying AIR breaks, all the COMPRESSED AIR in the pipe will EXPAND, until the pressure is back to ZERO (technically, back to "same as the ATMOSPHERE you're breathing") It's that lingering air pressure BEFORE it finishes expanding that is the "powder" that drives the "bullet" (broken shards of PVC) which makes it dangerous...

If you've done very much PVC WATER line, you've probably used a PVC pipe cutter like this

RIDGID 23498 Model RC-1625 Ratcheting Plastic Pipe and Tubing Cutter, 1/8-inch to 1-5/8-inch Pipe Cutter - Ridgid Pvc Cutter - Amazon.com

And, if you've gotten in a hurry and squeezed the handles too fast WITHOUT rotating the cutter slightly as it's getting STARTED in the cut, you may have had the pipe BREAK instead of getting CUT (especially in larger diameter, thinner walled, schedule 40 or thinner) - that BRITTLENESS is the PVC property that makes it DANGEROUS to use for AIR - because even though the size/thickness of PVC you're using might be rated for 600 psi, it is STILL BRITTLE and VERY LIKELY to SHATTER when struck lightly, and the EXPANDING AIR will still PROPEL the pieces in all directions.

This is similar to the difference between pulling with CABLE vs. pulling with CHAIN - when a CABLE breaks under tension, it's already stretched so it will SNAP BACK - sometimes with DEADLY FORCE. When a CHAIN breaks under tension, it's typically ONE LINK; the rest aren't stretched enough to have much of a "rubber band" effect, so the rest of the chain usually just (mostly) drops to the ground -

Best I can do for now, hope that made things CLEARER instead of WORSE... Steve

(next, some clarifications on "FRANZINATOR")

BukitCase · Sep 6, 2018

The previous link on "franzinator" has some good info, but could possibly be a little clearer - I tried to re-do some of the pics and add some comments last night, but my internet was down all day til several hours after bedtime; it's back up now, so here goes...

One of the confusions was ORIENTATION in the pics - I've changed them so ALL are shown as they should be when the unit is FINISHED and MOUNTED - in other words, everything in the edited pics is "right side up" - some of the PINK lettering doesn't show up as well, click to expand the pic may help... Steve