salvaged a Clark forklift...

[tc429]

Sweet deal. I'll be having a forklift-related thread or two in the coming months. I picked up a Kalmar C50 forklift two months ago for $500. I haven't touched it yet, too busy. It was flooded in Harvey and the transmission is full of water. It has a similar engine to yours. It's a Mitsubishi 4g54. Turns out this is actually a car engine they (Kalmar, Clark, et. al.) Adapted for forklift use, running propane with an impco regulator/mixer/whatchamacallit.

these mits engines seem good, but ive had a hard time figuring out diffs of a 53/54/63/64, and it appears all came in 8 or 16 valve sohc and 16 valve dohc, with side mounted distributors, COP/crank trigger setups, etc... luckily, they all have pretty unique shapes, was able to find tuneup parts/gaskets by gawking at google images of various mits passenger car engines.
if you happen to replace timing belt, note the oil pump drive needs timed also- theres a balance shaft attached to it... our old towmotor hack put a belt in our mits, the thing about vibrated apart... really irked me as i had severe doubts of his abilities, when they told me he was gonna change belt, i looked it up, printed out the timing mark instructions and even discussed with him...he was in agreement, brought the truck back the next day shaking like crazy, asked what the heck, timing of countershaft is off...he was like, no, that third sprocket is just oil pump drive, has nothing to do with it, no timing marks... they ended up having another mechanic retime it, yep it had marks for countershaft, ran smooth as silk...

I bought it just for the mast. I was planning on scrapping the rest. I want to make a forklift attachment for my tractor's 3-pt . But it looks like the engine might not have been ruined. Only place I have confirmed water intrusion is the transmission. If that's the case then I'm pulling that engine and going to use it as a generator power source. I've been looking for a great deal on a whole-home generator since Harvey, and specifically one that runs on propane. So far no luck. But I can get a 24kw generator head off eBay for $1000 and couple that to it. I think I want to use tractor PTO components to couple the motor. That way if the generator craps out when needed the most (as always seems to be the case) I can power the house with the tractor.

GMTA im looking at getting a 25kw ford powered set soon, deciding where to put...next to garage (by service entrance) is appealing to me as auto xfer stuff can be added w/existing wiring...but wife dont want to see it...putting on far side is a lot of big wire runs, BUT a shadowbox fence around it and propane tank would be outa sight... but doubt this forklift could carry a 3000# genset without sinking in the lawn...so a wider sidewalk, pad pour...gets pricey fast even if genset is cheap.

I had also thought about doing something like a lift for our 3pt too- one concern if high lift, you may deplete your hyd tank as cyls fill...most masts have pretty substantial bore diameters compared to a pair of bucket cyls... I still might make up a 'scoop' with a toggle type chain binder at top of hitch to dump...think a 1/4- 1/3 yard scoop could be fabbed easily, that could scoop and lift a foot, just to move dirt...maybe someday...

Back to your forklift, I'm jealous. That type of indoor/outdoor forklift is very handy. Lifting heavy things is the only reason I bought a tractor. Having a forklift like that would have been nice. I'm sure you'll be very happy with it! How many lbs is it rated to lift?

Great haul!

5000 pound, 188" triple...the thing weighs 9900 according to tag.

years ago lifting things was a lot easier, but takes its toll...Ive found myself fabbing more lift attachments than ever this yr, just because i'm realizing i cant do it anymore...opportunity for a truck at home appeared, hmm...pulling engines, getting the mustang on/off the rotisserie, heck just moving machines and stuff in the garage (i moved my lathe with a floor jack alone- cant anymore, assembled my mill by hand, used cherrypicker to mount ram, but everything else was by hand, removed a bear alignment lift on/off trailer and installed using pipes and ratchet straps...never used to think about it... but 38 years climbing on machines, lugging 80-120# servos up/down ladders, replacing 300# spindle cartridges, pulling slides, etc...it takes a toll...now that i knpw i have a back, knees, ankles, i take it a lot easier- but got my shoulder somehow 6 months ago, embarassing as i cant lift squat...can sill carry as much as ever, but trying to get above/below waist level, waaa... heck just sitting here typing feels like waaa... had thought about saving these trucks last year, but too many projects...but this yr aches are telling me its time to quit lifting stuff. the cradles i made to lift my mustang onto the rotisserie weigh a few hundred pounds, hung the car in '13 no issues, but know i couldnt get it down myself if i had to right now... so a scrappy towmotor sounded realhandy- but my luck seems to be better right now, never dreamed this thing would be so easy to make not just functional for occasional use, but actually be a pretty darn nice truck- just i cant leave it looking as bad as it does, so paint is next, along with original looking decals...maybe i'll build a boom for it next- or a shed to park some tractors in... my garage is jammed embarassingly bad with projects...

 

[tc429]

got the levers tightened up and back on, they had 2" slop, now 1/8"...a slight improvement

you can see the worn 'slot' vs the wider milled slot, and the pins/rollers made to replace the bolts... that leaves the steering bushings and paint

 

[strantor]

these mits engines seem good, but ive had a hard time figuring out diffs of a 53/54/63/64, and it appears all came in 8 or 16 valve sohc and 16 valve dohc, with side mounted distributors, COP/crank trigger setups, etc... luckily, they all have pretty unique shapes, was able to find tuneup parts/gaskets by gawking at google images of various mits passenger car engines.
if you happen to replace timing belt, note the oil pump drive needs timed also- theres a balance shaft attached to it... our old towmotor hack put a belt in our mits, the thing about vibrated apart... really irked me as i had severe doubts of his abilities, when they told me he was gonna change belt, i looked it up, printed out the timing mark instructions and even discussed with him...he was in agreement, brought the truck back the next day shaking like crazy, asked what the heck, timing of countershaft is off...he was like, no, that third sprocket is just oil pump drive, has nothing to do with it, no timing marks... they ended up having another mechanic retime it, yep it had marks for countershaft, ran smooth as silk...

GMTA im looking at getting a 25kw ford powered set soon, deciding where to put...next to garage (by service entrance) is appealing to me as auto xfer stuff can be added w/existing wiring...but wife dont want to see it...putting on far side is a lot of big wire runs, BUT a shadowbox fence around it and propane tank would be outa sight... but doubt this forklift could carry a 3000# genset without sinking in the lawn...so a wider sidewalk, pad pour...gets pricey fast even if genset is cheap.

I had also thought about doing something like a lift for our 3pt too- one concern if high lift, you may deplete your hyd tank as cyls fill...most masts have pretty substantial bore diameters compared to a pair of bucket cyls... I still might make up a 'scoop' with a toggle type chain binder at top of hitch to dump...think a 1/4- 1/3 yard scoop could be fabbed easily, that could scoop and lift a foot, just to move dirt...maybe someday...



5000 pound, 188" triple...the thing weighs 9900 according to tag.

years ago lifting things was a lot easier, but takes its toll...Ive found myself fabbing more lift attachments than ever this yr, just because i'm realizing i cant do it anymore...opportunity for a truck at home appeared, hmm...pulling engines, getting the mustang on/off the rotisserie, heck just moving machines and stuff in the garage (i moved my lathe with a floor jack alone- cant anymore, assembled my mill by hand, used cherrypicker to mount ram, but everything else was by hand, removed a bear alignment lift on/off trailer and installed using pipes and ratchet straps...never used to think about it... but 38 years climbing on machines, lugging 80-120# servos up/down ladders, replacing 300# spindle cartridges, pulling slides, etc...it takes a toll...now that i knpw i have a back, knees, ankles, i take it a lot easier- but got my shoulder somehow 6 months ago, embarassing as i cant lift squat...can sill carry as much as ever, but trying to get above/below waist level, waaa... heck just sitting here typing feels like waaa... had thought about saving these trucks last year, but too many projects...but this yr aches are telling me its time to quit lifting stuff. the cradles i made to lift my mustang onto the rotisserie weigh a few hundred pounds, hung the car in '13 no issues, but know i couldnt get it down myself if i had to right now... so a scrappy towmotor sounded realhandy- but my luck seems to be better right now, never dreamed this thing would be so easy to make not just functional for occasional use, but actually be a pretty darn nice truck- just i cant leave it looking as bad as it does, so paint is next, along with original looking decals...maybe i'll build a boom for it next- or a shed to park some tractors in... my garage is jammed embarassingly bad with projects...

Sounds like we share a lot of interests. I spent the day yesterday getting my 1988 lagunmatic CNC mill up and running on the new LinuxCNC controller I built for it. Hopefully today or tomorrow I'll be making chips with it. First thing I'm going to do with my 3-pt forklift attachment is move my 1956 18" gap bed lathe from the storage building to the shop so I can tear it down, build it up, and slap servos on it so I'll have a CNC lathe too. By the time I'm done with all that (hopefully in <38 years) I'll be having aches and pains too. Already working through the pain of a recent hernia surgery.

 

[tc429]

LOL- yeah similar sounding projects...my lathe is a 1953 leblond(saved from scrap), mill is a 1981 bridgeport(saved from scrap), rebuilt a fanuc 0M-A(wife wasnt thrilled with the cost of that, but...(older fanuc servos CAN run on single phase power to terminals A and 1, jumper 1 to 2, it fools the phase detection...needs at least 170 volts- supposed to be 3 phase 185 volt). bought a brand new fanuc robot module at HGRINC.com for 50 bucks, took the upper two axes off, simply bolting a spindle on it would make a nice, tiny, polar coord milling machine, looks like about a 8" cube could be done with a lot of rigidity...hassle is its got alpha encoders and ive yet to find a way to read them...arduino will handle the 1.024Mbaud rate(77bit stream) but the rotor position inverts at reverse, and resolution decreases as rpm goes up- really weird, just couldnt wrap my head around it...dont have any other servos tiny enough to put on it, would hate to go stepper... wonder if a board from a dynapar or similar could just be soldered to the fanuc phototransistors and stuffed under the red cap...that would get rid of their odd commutation signals, could use and drive...
what servos are on your Lagun- OEM stuff or gecko/aftermarket? Ive thought about cnc on the old lathe, but think if i ever do, it will just be a small 2 axis slide to bolt in place of the turret, just rough position and set the slide locks... maybe someday

 

[strantor]

LOL- yeah similar sounding projects...my lathe is a 1953 leblond(saved from scrap), mill is a 1981 bridgeport(saved from scrap), rebuilt a fanuc 0M-A(wife wasnt thrilled with the cost of that, but...(older fanuc servos CAN run on single phase power to terminals A and 1, jumper 1 to 2, it fools the phase detection...needs at least 170 volts- supposed to be 3 phase 185 volt). bought a brand new fanuc robot module at HGRINC.com for 50 bucks, took the upper two axes off, simply bolting a spindle on it would make a nice, tiny, polar coord milling machine, looks like about a 8" cube could be done with a lot of rigidity...hassle is its got alpha encoders and ive yet to find a way to read them...arduino will handle the 1.024Mbaud rate(77bit stream) but the rotor position inverts at reverse, and resolution decreases as rpm goes up- really weird, just couldnt wrap my head around it...dont have any other servos tiny enough to put on it, would hate to go stepper... wonder if a board from a dynapar or similar could just be soldered to the fanuc phototransistors and stuffed under the red cap...that would get rid of their odd commutation signals, could use and drive...
what servos are on your Lagun- OEM stuff or gecko/aftermarket? Ive thought about cnc on the old lathe, but think if i ever do, it will just be a small 2 axis slide to bolt in place of the turret, just rough position and set the slide locks... maybe someday

I don't know what you mean by "alpha encoder." Sounds like you might be describing a grey code absolute position encoder? If so, check out this app note from AutomationDirect. It explains how a PLC interprets grey code and it helped me wrap my head around it. and it also gives some theoretical circuits which could be turned into real circuits to decode the position.

My CNC is using all A.C. servos. Even The spindle. The previous owner installed them. He removed the old DC servos and drives and put SureServo motors on Y & Z axis, and an old Fanuc A.C. servo on X. He put a big ol Allen Bradley 5kw servo on the spindle and did away with the gearbox. The servo drives he installed are ancient Allen Bradley Ultra100 drives for the 3 axes and an Ultra 3000 for the spindle. This dude had all the money in the world to tinker with this machine but he stopped short of ripping out the old CRT and dynapath system. I think he got bored with it. Got bigger and better toys/projects. I had the mill for about a month before that old dynapath system went titsup. I was glad it died. I welcomed the excuse to build a controller. I actually made money on the control system. The boards (in "for parts" condition) sold for more that it cost me for a couple of brand new Mesa boards and an old WinXP desktop PC. Not counting my time of course. I got it running last year but couldn't afford any tooling. Then I got a boatload of work and finally bought some tooling but was too busy to play with it. It turned into a shelf. I finally got it into the shop and troubleshot a couple of issues that I had left lingering from last year. It's theoretically ready to go now. We will see.

 

[tc429]

I don't know what you mean by "alpha encoder." Sounds like you might be describing a grey code absolute position encoder? If so, check out this app note from AutomationDirect. It explains how a PLC interprets grey code and it helped me wrap my head around it. and it also gives some theoretical circuits which could be turned into real circuits to decode the position.

Sorry- 'alpha' and 'beta' are just family names fanuc used- they are a proprietary serial encoder- outputs the gray code for magnet position. but in a weird serial bit pattern, then theres strings for alarms, velocity, position count since last update, and God knows what else...havent played with it for years, but its a screaming 77 bit pattern of 1's and 0's that sure dont make a lot of sense... the gray code for commutation, or simple hall pattern encoders would work if theyd fit the fanuc motor, but of course they build the mountings unique

My CNC is using all A.C. servos. Even The spindle. The previous owner installed them. He removed the old DC servos and drives and put SureServo motors on Y & Z axis, and an old Fanuc A.C. servo on X. He put a big ol Allen Bradley 5kw servo on the spindle and did away with the gearbox. The servo drives he installed are ancient Allen Bradley Ultra100 drives for the 3 axes and an Ultra 3000 for the spindle. This dude had all the money in the world to tinker with this machine but he stopped short of ripping out the old CRT and dynapath system. I think he got bored with it. Got bigger and better toys/projects. I had the mill for about a month before that old dynapath system went titsup. I was glad it died. I welcomed the excuse to build a controller. I actually made money on the control system. The boards (in "for parts" condition) sold for more that it cost me for a couple of brand new Mesa boards and an old WinXP desktop PC. Not counting my time of course. I got it running last year but couldn't afford any tooling. Then I got a boatload of work and finally bought some tooling but was too busy to play with it. It turned into a shelf. I finally got it into the shop and troubleshot a couple of issues that I had left lingering from last year. It's theoretically ready to go now. We will see.

i'm running 6047 fanuc dc yellow caps- one of my least favorites, but the motors were on the mill(not much else), put a 1/2 hp dc on the spindle, but it sucks, too noisy...will be putting a 1/2 hp 3 phase motor on it before long, with one of automation directs single to three phase 99.00 drives- weve used a lot of them at work on conveyors and other little stuff, son of a gun if they arent dead reliable... will just leave the 6047s as ive bought a few spares, should outlast me...watching ebay/auctions, the old dc drives can be found for 30 bucks or so, think motors were about 50... i built a horizontal 4th axis out of a old robot knuckle, still havent added the drive for it...just tested by running it off the 'y' axis drive as thats effectively what it does anyway the Zero control is 3+1 axis, so with 4th axis, will need to edit the ladder for either multiple preset speeds, or a binary output to a voltage divider for analog rpm ref...way down the to do list though...

funny, a lot of similar but different projects in our garages you into old cars, and r/c planes/helis too?

 

[strantor]

Sorry- 'alpha' and 'beta' are just family names fanuc used- they are a proprietary serial encoder- outputs the gray code for magnet position. but in a weird serial bit pattern, then theres strings for alarms, velocity, position count since last update, and God knows what else...havent played with it for years, but its a screaming 77 bit pattern of 1's and 0's that sure dont make a lot of sense... the gray code for commutation, or simple hall pattern encoders would work if theyd fit the fanuc motor, but of course they build the mountings unique



i'm running 6047 fanuc dc yellow caps- one of my least favorites, but the motors were on the mill(not much else), put a 1/2 hp dc on the spindle, but it sucks, too noisy...will be putting a 1/2 hp 3 phase motor on it before long, with one of automation directs single to three phase 99.00 drives- weve used a lot of them at work on conveyors and other little stuff, son of a gun if they arent dead reliable... will just leave the 6047s as ive bought a few spares, should outlast me...watching ebay/auctions, the old dc drives can be found for 30 bucks or so, think motors were about 50... i built a horizontal 4th axis out of a old robot knuckle, still havent added the drive for it...just tested by running it off the 'y' axis drive as thats effectively what it does anyway the Zero control is 3+1 axis, so with 4th axis, will need to edit the ladder for either multiple preset speeds, or a binary output to a voltage divider for analog rpm ref...way down the to do list though...

funny, a lot of similar but different projects in our garages you into old cars, and r/c planes/helis too?

Yeah I didn't know that about Fanuc encoders. Sounds like they went out of their way to overcomplicate things. If there isn't anyone out there selling a solution in a box, I think my efforts would be focused on adapting a standard encoder to it, even if it means machining a new housing. I'm not robot savvy; I can tell you're much more in your element there than I am. My area is normal industrial controls (PLCs, VFDs, sometimes servos, sometimes CNCs). I design/build/program/troubleshoot (field service) industrial control panels for a living. Conveyors, extruders, winders, shears/stamps, etc. (Very long list not including robots). When I don't have any engineering projects or field service to to, I will refurbish smaller production machinery (ex: injection molds, winders, etc) that I can fit in my shop. That, and loading/unloading/moving the panels that I build, is why I bought a tractor, and how I ended up on a tractor forum talking about robots.

The CNC stuff is just a hobby for now but I am entertaining the idea of refurbishing CNCs as well. Not sure if there's money in that though. I'm also very intrigued by robots and would love to find an avenue into working with them but as if yet I have zero robot experience.

I love old cars but i haven't had a project car in years, and probably won't for years to come. When my life slows down a bit I think. I love welding and machining and I've been entertaining the idea of building a rock crawler. Stupid for me because I live nowhere within a tank of gas of any big rocks. But they're so cool. Probably won't happen. RC planes are my dad's thing. I never got into it. Seems cool, but I never could justify spending a few hundred bucks on something I'm reasonably sure I will destroy within a week. Not when I could spend that on a welder or something.

 

[tc429]

how I ended up on a tractor forum talking about robots.

LOL, funny how things work sometimes

 

[GLyford]

automation directs single to three phase 99.00 drives- we've used a lot of them at work on conveyors and other little stuff, son of a gun if they aren't dead reliable

Got one of those a few years back with the intent of getting my Index knee mill up and running, off their ebay store. Finally plugged it in and there was a "pop" and nothing.

So my buddy and I went with plan B and tore into one of my half built rotary converters (tested the idler in his 3-phase) and finally got that running. It grumbles a lot when not under load, so I am not convinced I have the cap values quite right yet, but the mill now runs.

Now I just need to learn how to use it...

 

[strantor]

Got one of those a few years back with the intent of getting my Index knee mill up and running, off their ebay store. Finally plugged it in and there was a "pop" and nothing.

So my buddy and I went with plan B and tore into one of my half built rotary converters (tested the idler in his 3-phase) and finally got that running. It grumbles a lot when not under load, so I am not convinced I have the cap values quite right yet, but the mill now runs.

Now I just need to learn how to use it...

That's unfortunate about the VFD. In my experience AutomationDirect has been acceptable in quality and unbeatable in price. Your experience I would call a fluke. AutomationDirect is my go-to source for clients on a budget or clients with no vendor preference. I can get 90% of all the components needed to build a panel from one source, ordered online with instant pricing and fast shipping. No waiting on quotes. I can get my bid in before my competition and its typically the lowest.