Differences in Series,ie.,20, 25, etc. Logic & Erroneous Info

[bigcut]

As I reviewed the various Branson models on their website, I became a little confused. Normal logic would say that as you go up in series (10, 20, 25, etc.) that the frame and size of tractor increases, but, I'm not sure that's the case between the 20 and 25. Or, at least I couldn't tell. An example would be the 4720CH and the 4225CH specs.

In launching the 25 series, I'm not sure what the Branson thinking was. Maybe some of you have a clearer understanding.

Another thing, the Branson website appears to be loaded with errors, typo's, etc. I think their 2510 unit is listed as having 78 hp in it's specs. What's worse is that the dealers use this same info on their websites by cutting and pasting.

The point being is that you create business websites to inform, educate and answer questions for potential buyers or customers, to help them determine if your product is a potential fit. Or if they want to go the next step by visiting a dealer to see your product. The intention is to increase sales. What happens is that you're just not sure what to believe in what you read. And, if you have to call a dealer to get clarification, then there's no real purpose in the website. You want to make it easy for potential buyers to get info.

Kioti and others are guilty of the same thing....They still don't have photo's and accurate details on their new DKSE line.

I also sent Branson a short note making them aware of some of the errors.
John

 

[ptsg]

The 25 series is the newer and updated series of the 20 series. They corrected a couple of bugs, relocated some of the controls like the PTO switch is now in a better spot, changed the hood latch system and a couple more that I'm not aware of.

In Europe, the 20 series is not sold anymore. Just the 00 series, F series (15 series in US), 20 series and the big boys of the K series. Looks like they still 20 series in the US?

As far as the website, yeah, it's a total caos. Although the Branson Global website seems a bit more organized than the US website. At least they've removed the 20 series.

Seems like they didn't care anymore about the website since the acquisition as a group between Tym and Branson.

 

[bigcut]

The 25 series is the newer and updated series of the 20 series. They corrected a couple of bugs, relocated some of the controls like the PTO switch is now in a better spot, changed the hood latch system and a couple more that I'm not aware of.

In Europe, the 20 series is not sold anymore. Just the 00 series, F series (15 series in US), 20 series and the big boys of the K series. Looks like they still 20 series in the US?

As far as the website, yeah, it's a total caos. Although the Branson Global website seems a bit more organized than the US website. At least they've removed the 20 series.

Seems like they didn't care anymore about the website since the acquisition as a group between Tym and Branson.

Thanks ptsg, I expected the 25 series to be a bigger frame/heavier with more hp choices. However it appears that the HP choices are only 2, 37 and 42 hp. But, it looks as if the frame is the same size as the 20. Interesting that they discontinued the 20 in Europe, but, sell it in the US. Maybe they will expand the hp choices in the 25 and drop the 20 eventually in the US.

I'd be curious as to what the bugs were that they corrected by introducing the 25 series.

John

 

[ptsg]

I totally missed pointing how the HP.

Over here the 25 series goes from 35 to 60 HP. The F series goes from 35 to 45 HP on a slightly smaller frame than the 25 series.

I agree with you. Maybe they will keep selling the 20 series till they get out of stock. Then they expand the 25 series.

There might be more changes that probably can only be seen when having the two machines side by side. Due to lack of online info.

 

[PapeCAT]

This is all my opinion and speculation but to me, it looks like the USA is the dumping ground for the remainder of 20 series chassis and ancillary parts. The 25 series completely replaces the 20 series and yes the 25 series have a heavier gauge steel frame among other niceties like dual crank rear 3 point arms standard in addition to what was mentioned above. However, not until the 20 series is completely phased out or current inventory and backlog liquidated, will we see the larger HP 25 series units, like in Europe.

Currently only the 2.0 liter (sometimes referred to as the 2.1) 4 cylinder is available in the 25 series in 37/42 hp.
The 2.3 liter turbo and non-turbo is only available in the 20 series at this time in the USA, (55&47 HP respectively) but the rest of the world gets this larger engine in the 25 series.

 

[bigcut]

This is all my opinion and speculation but to me, it looks like the USA is the dumping ground for the remainder of 20 series chassis and ancillary parts. The 25 series completely replaces the 20 series and yes the 25 series have a heavier gauge steel frame among other niceties like dual crank rear 3 point arms standard in addition to what was mentioned above. However, not until the 20 series is completely phased out or current inventory and backlog liquidated, will we see the larger HP 25 series units, like in Europe.

Currently only the 2.0 liter (sometimes referred to as the 2.1) 4 cylinder is available in the 25 series in 37/42 hp.
The 2.3 liter turbo and non-turbo is only available in the 20 series at this time in the USA, (55&47 HP respectively) but the rest of the world gets this larger engine in the 25 series.

Pape, I think you might have something there...I curious as to your thoughts on "turbo vs. non-turbo". Any insights as to the pros and cons ? I'd welcome all comments.
John

 

[PapeCAT]

A little quick run down on these "A" series engines. Some people call them cummins, which technically they are, I guess, but there is more to the story. These "A" series engines were originally developed by Onan for Gensets and the like. Cummins Bought out Onan, and in turn inherited these engines- at this same time they reworked a few things and sent all manufacturing abroad to Kukje. One of these changes was to eliminate the sleeved cylinder walls and adopt a parent bore block design. So as it is, they are an Onan, modified by cummins, and ALWAYS manufactured by Kukje.

The A1400 (3Cyl) A2000 (4cyl) & A1700 (3cyl) A2300 (4cyl) are all the same stroke, but the later larger variants have a larger bore to make for the larger displacement. 84mmx94mm vs 88mmx94mm Bore and Stroke

Turbo vs. non Turbo. For one reason or another, only the big(er) bore variation of the 3 and 4 cylinder engines are available turbocharged. (but also NA)

My opinion is that turbos on diesel engines are like butter on bread. But practically, unless you are at higher altitude, it might not be worth the trouble of having to cool down the turbo for a few min after max output work session. (aka turbos aren't a hassle) There aren't many downsides to having a turbo, their longevity is almost lifetime in an application like this, I would imagine and thus not a maintenance concern. They are also considered a muffler in some state for road tractors. So you get less NVH. What I wouldn't have paid to have the A2300T in a 25 series hydrostat.

Source: http://engineprofessional.com/TB/TB020118-2.pdf

 

[bigcut]

So, Pape, I take it you're a fan of turbos. Can I ask why ??

What do you think of the Branson engines ??

Your thoughts on the 25 series ??
John

 

[Cougsfan]

I was planning on buying the turbo version of my tractor. The dealer talked me out of it. The turbo does add a few more HP. The turbo is reliable. No real downside other than added cost. Where Turbos really shine is at +4000 ft altitudes. Below that altitude, it is questionable if the turbo adds enough real world value to justify the additional cost (I am para-phrasing my dealer here). He stated this is only true for compact tractors. Something like a truck or large tractor is a totally different story. They benefit much more from a turbo.

 

[PapeCAT]

Yes, I had a turbo'd 2800H 2012 model as my first branson and I didn't notice the turbo too much but it is just a cool factor I suppose. Unless you just want one, if you're not at higher 3k+ altitude, it isn't worth it. But I do know that generally the turbo makes the engine burn cleaner (less PM) when spooled up, so perhaps it might help keep the DPF cleaner for longer? Purely speculation based on experience with 5.9 cummins motors I've tested with VGT turbos that were fully adjustable on the fly as far as boost goes. No boost under load will always Haze PM.

I am a long time Bosch VE rotary injection pump rebuilder, and Cummins Engine enthusiast for pre 1993 Dodge pickup trucks. Being that Branson/Kukje engines are VE pumped aka Mechanical, there is really no other modern diesel that interests me in compact tractors. I have little to no interest in Common rail / CRD engines, and the like.

The 25 series tractors are simple and well built, with a couple quirks like that front axle breather, mine leaked once when I unknowingly parked it on a side hill on the far end of my property. They are my favorite model for that size vs. all the other mainstay brands that I've tested and operated, and I also like the current 00/10 series. Little brutes for their size. A 25 series paired with the new BL200 loader can't really be beat in my opinion.