Glyphosate - related to bee decline

[kenmac]

Alternatives such as...?
I am truly interested but refuse to hear some asinine formulations that include dishwashing liquid, salt (!!!), or similar .

Yep, If this worked, farmers would be using it as it would save BIG money over Glyphosate.

 

[LD1]

This whole thread reminds me of googling your symptoms if feeling ill....

Everything is bad for you, nothing is good for you, and we all gonna die:laughing:

How do we know that dosing your weeds with:
Sodium Lauryl Sulfate, Sodium Laureth Sulfate C,Lauramine Oxide, Alcohol Denatured, Sodium Chloride, PPG-26, Sodium Hydroxide, Phenoxyethanol, Methylisothiazolinone

mixed with acetic acid

is any better than glyphosate?

At least I can pronounce glyphosate

 

[GirlWhoWantsTractor]

Alternatives such as...? Remember I'm talking 15 miles of row crop; that sort of knocks out landscape fabric, mulch, cultivation, or hoeing. I don't enjoy pumping glyphosate into the environment; I'd like to think I'm a responsible user but as I said earlier the march against Monsanto crowd just wants it banned with zero suggestions about alternatives.
I am truly interested but refuse to hear some asinine formulations that include dishwashing liquid, salt (!!!), or similar .

I wouldn't presume to talk about how to manage a relatively large farm like yours--I was a landscaper, never a farmer--but here are some articles that discuss natural methods of weed control on farms. I have toured a large organic farm, and they use row covers and a lot of other methods combined.

Creating a Weed Management Plan for Your Organic Farm

How do big commercial organic farms, like Earthbound Farms, control the weeds in their fields? | GMO Answers

 

[/pine]

If Monsanto genetically modified all the common weeds so they could not reproduce they could be eliminated from ag regions...end of problem...EXCEPT once they did that they would no longer be able to sell herbicides and seed that grew crop plants that were resistant to said herbicides year after year after year...!

 

[hawkeye08]

One of the problems with farms today is so many don't get it, don't let weeds go to seed, whether you mow them, spray them, plow them or hoe them by hand, the only way to control long term is to stop letting them reseed. County here killed some landscaping a few years ago, I talked to them and then they sent out a form for me to sign where I take care of weeds along road between the red and green markers. They haven't sprayed my bushes since, but there are literally miles of roads with noxious weeds that go to seed (and yes, the seeds for thistle blow far and wide) every year. When I was growing up, we had clean fields, but part of that was keeping the fence lines free of weeds, most farmers did this, made it easier for all.

It's probably been 15 years now, but my brother had a golf cart with sprayer on back, I asked him why, he said when he was working on irrigation or saw weeds, he just sprayed them. He added a bit of Roundup occasionally to tank to keep it fresh.. 40 years ago, we walked and carried a shovel to deal with weeds.

 

[fishheadbob]

I wouldn't presume to talk about how to manage a relatively large farm like yours--I was a landscaper, never a farmer--but here are some articles that discuss natural methods of weed control on farms. I have toured a large organic farm, and they use row covers and a lot of other methods combined.

Creating a Weed Management Plan for Your Organic Farm

How do big commercial organic farms, like Earthbound Farms, control the weeds in their fields? | GMO Answers

View attachment 573179

Thanks for your response. The references cited all seem to be for veggies in a short rotation. They cite crop rotation which is a great principle, as well as cultivation. On a 8 to 10 year rotational cycle neither of those methods are practical in Christmas trees.

I have an acquaintance who provides the organic milk for the Wegman's chain milking thousands of Holsteins and growing corn, hay, and beans for feed. I haven't leaned on him for what he does, and while corn and beans are 1 year rotation crops, he probably gets a few years out of alfalfa. I also have the feeling that it's possible to be certified organic while still using moderate amounts of "approved" chemicals.
Years ago my son worked at the landscape plant wholesale nursery primarily hoeing for 8 or 10 hours a day. A few days later that field got sprayed to keep weeds in check. (Yes, he was developing some NFL forearms.)
FWIW I don't use any chemicals or petro based fertilizers anywhere near my home or vegetable garden. I really am searching for a practical approach to weed management. As I stated earlier I really don't enjoy pumping this **** into our already ill atmosphere.

What I have seen is well intentioned folks attempting organic Christmas trees and after 4 or 5 years they realize they have a tremendous crop of weeds and brush with some ratty trees thrown in.That is a lot of wasted time and money. I haven't seen anyone succeed. There are a few studies out there from UNC and Penn State really dissing attempts at Organic trees.

 

[tcreeley]

I don't recall what nasty stuff was in Agent Orange but not likely glyphosate which wasn't invented until 1994, and not heavily marketed until a few years later. Viet Nam was pretty wound down by then. Always good to know that Uncle Sam was looking out for the boys.

Glyphosate | ... history of glyphosate

"The molecule glyphosate was patented by Monsanto in the early 1970s as the active ingredient in the herbicide Roundup. Roundup was introduced to the consumer market in 1974 as a broad-spectrum herbicide and quickly became one of the best-selling herbicides since 1980."
Glyphosate | History of glyphosate


Agent orange - The two active ingredients in the Agent Orange herbicide combination were equal amounts of 2,4-dichlorophenoxyacetic acid (2,4-D) and 2,4,5-trichlorophenoxyacetic acid (2,4,5-T), which contained traces of 2,3,7,8-tetrachlorodibenzo-p-dioxin (TCDD). The dioxin TCDD was an unwanted byproduct of herbicide production.
Produced by Dow Chemical and Monsanto.

Today - Viet Nam First Agent Orange, now Roundup: what's Monsanto up to in Vietnam? Ecologist Special Investigation

 

[fishheadbob]

If Monsanto genetically modified all the common weeds so they could not reproduce they could be eliminated from ag regions...end of problem...EXCEPT once they did that they would no longer be able to sell herbicides and seed that grew crop plants that were resistant to said herbicides year after year after year...!

Nah. Mother nature is one crafty woman who is adept at developing roundup resistant weeds. That's why you have to mix up your spray program. If you hit the same fenceline with the same chemical and kill 98% of the weeds each year( good job), that other 2% reseeds each year into a superweed within a few years. You have in effect genetically modified some weeds to Roundup ready

 

[tcreeley]

What I have seen is well intentioned folks attempting organic Christmas trees and after 4 or 5 years they realize they have a tremendous crop of weeds and brush with some ratty trees thrown in.That is a lot of wasted time and money. I haven't seen anyone succeed. There are a few studies out there from UNC and Penn State really dissing attempts at Organic trees.

Organic Christmas Tree Farms by state - Natural Baby Mama

 

[Diggin It]

and we all gonna die:laughing:

We are.


But don't tell anybody. It's a secret.