Flail Mower Let's talk flail mowers

[TheFarmerInAdell]

not trying to argue, just respectfully point out my opinion but I just don't see how side slicers generate enough lateral force to overcome the centripetal force acting on the knives at full operating speed. I don't know the math but I do know with the weight of the side slicers turning at several thousand rpm the force required would most likely be in the several hundred pound range if not in the thousands.

example hang one knife from the hanger and it will hang crooked because it will balance its center of gravity under the attachment point. hang two side slicers and they will touch each other and the vertical parts will be straight. there is no way to generate lateral forces to seperate the two knives with a plain flat profile like most typical side slicer knives.

that being said, I have never seen a picture of these airplane wing shaped knives before and would appreciate if someone could post one. all I have seen are plain stamped steel side slicers, scoop knives, or hammers that are in the flail master catalog.

Take a look at the attached image. The airplane wing is on the left.

I agree about the lateral vs centripetal force and have seen pictures of the side slicers leaving v-shaped groves in a lawn. When you go with a finish mower using the side slicers you over lap and have smaller v's so it isn't apparent, but they don't go flat.

 

[bruceha2000]

I wonder if that "V" is why the Woodmaxx blades also have a center blade.

 

[TheFarmerInAdell]

The center blade will do little if anything to help with that "v". Typically the center blade is for thatching. Woodmax might also use that as an extra mulching blade for sticks and harder materials being cut.

 

[def38]

I prefer these...

Flail Mover Blade, Flail Hammer Blade | Steel Forging


They mistakenly call it a mover blade.

 

[Ricn]

The Woodmaxx I have works well and I do tilt the front up a bit to stop scalping that otherwise happens if setting it flat on the ground. Having the mower tilted up does not cut or mulch as well as when flat so Leonz in my opinion is correct in his assessment on how a flail should be designed or was designed initially and would be great if mine operated while flat and without scalping but it's also not the case here. Like Leonz mentioned, these off-shore flails are different than the older flails and a way of cutting corners perhaps like many things being made these days. For my unit, a model 62H, I had to find a happy medium of tilt whereby the grass is cut satisfactorily while keeping scalping to a minimum. For me, this means keeping most if not all the weight on the roller. My grass is not pristine or very flat having lots on bumps and such but were I cutting something like an estate grass where everything must look pristine I might not be so happy. This Woodmaxx is perfect for my situation while being cost effective to own.

Ricn

 

[leonz]

OK,

The tool less mounting stations on my Mathews Company Lawn Genie Pick Up Mower mower are spring tensioned knife hangers. The wide loop hangers allow the side slicer knives to become horizontal when the flail mower spins up to the operating speed and cut flat. with the tapered side slicer knives.

The Mott folks recommended that the thatching blades were ment to be used alone in each mounting station when dethatching a lawn.

With the Lawn Genie when the thatching blade is placed between the side slicers on the mounting station the side slicers and the flail mower rotor are lowered with the mowing height gauge to permit the thatching blades to dig into the turf.
When this is done the process of thatching begins and it allows the side slicers to mow closer to the ground and lift the thatch and grass up and over the flail mower rotor. In my case the baffle plate is lifted and the air flow is diverted to flow upward into the collection basket for later disposal. The side slicer flail knives also create the aerodynamic lift needed to vacuum the grass and thatch into the coolection hopper with the tapered side slicer knife edge that becomes horizontal due to the ability of the knife pairs to become air foils due to the long mounting slot of the side slicer knife.

When this is done the grass really looks naked with the grooved vacuumed turf and you can spread grass seed, gypsum and lime pellets or hydrated lime to help the lawn and help kill the weeds with the lime pellets or hydrated lime

Again the airplane wing knives ARE WHAT ARE REFERRED TO AS "SCOOP KNIVES". The delta wing configuration is simply a result of the thinner bar stock being formed into shape to create the Scoop Knife after the mounting hole is punched and the knife edge is ground.

The "Scoop Knife" is a "multipurpose flail mower knife" for brush and sod and does not provide a fine finish cut.

 

[standup616]

Flail mowers are not designed to be operated that way. They have to be level to enable them to create the suction needed to lift the clippings up and over the flail mower rotor.

The scoop knives and hammer knives do not have the aerodynamic design to lift and recut clippings and brush.

Raising the front of the flail mower reduces the ability of the flail mower to work more effectively as the flail mower shroud and flail knives work together.

The flail mower shroud acts as an air duct with a limited number of cubic feet within the shroud to let the knives move the air entering the shroud from the front of the mower and also when making second passes to recut the brush and good grass clippings.

The Mathews Company Lawn Genie flail mowers used air paddles to aid in lifting the clippings up and over the flail mower rotor more efficiently and the air paddles also aided in blowing the clippings into the collection baskets of all three models of lawn genies. Sadly these flail mowers are no longer made but after 30 years parts are replacement parts are still available.

Someone else has heard of a lawn genie! I love my seriously abused and fabricobbled back together lawn genie! I have 3 (paw inlaw has one on loan) mc-36s. Have an 11hp honda on my running one, welded washers on ring end of my blades and welded/ground the grove in the hangers to keep from losing everything and made new fan blades when they break. When i lived next to the trailer park, the lawn genie was only thing that kept their garbage they threw over the fence in check and ate the sycamore tree leaves...Glad I sold that place 20 year ago. I am looking for an 8ft flail to run on the M7060 I ordered thats arriving in November they tell me

 

[leonz]

Hellostandup616,

Start looking at tractor house, auction time and iron planet for a used JD25A, 290 or 390 flailmower(8 foot cut). you should also check with the JD dealers in a wide radius as they may have used 290's in as trades(7 foot cut) or they know where some used ones are as the dealers also have a network for used JD machinery and JD implements.

Another option is to check with The Vrisimo folks in California to see if they have taken in any seven or eight foot flail mowers in on trade as they go through them completely and sell them as guaranteed units.

ALL the repair parts are still available from Mathews for the Lawn Genie Pick Up mowers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sadly though :thumbdown: the beautiful tapered side slicer knives that they came with are no longer available-I am working on that fact though.

The smallest Peruzzo PTO Pick Up Flail Mowers are 12K before they leave the dock in Italy; your new mule can handle one with ease and the larger model is also a front castered unit with rear tires to go along with the rear roller has a hydraulic lift collection basket just the 60 inch Lawn Genie Pick Up Mower.


Sent you a pm.

 

[TheFarmerInAdell]

The wide loop hangers allow the side slicer knives to become horizontal when the flail mower spins up to the operating speed and cut flat. with the tapered side slicer knives.

I have a hard time believing this. The laws of physics disagree with this theory. Do you have any proof that this actually happens? I've seen nice lawns mowed with side slicers and you can see the "V" shape left by the side slicers proving that it doesn't go horizontal.

Again the airplane wing knives ARE WHAT ARE REFERRED TO AS "SCOOP KNIVES". The delta wing configuration is simply a result of the thinner bar stock being formed into shape to create the Scoop Knife after the mounting hole is punched and the knife edge is ground.

The "Scoop Knife" is a "multipurpose flail mower knife" for brush and sod and does not provide a fine finish cut.

Airplane wings are not scoop knives. They are made differently and hang differently. The scoop has a single blade that goes all the way across the front, parallel to the ground and sits out front of the hanging point. The airplane wing has 2 small blades that are parallel but sit directly below the hanging point. Airplane wings are specific to Ford 917 (and I think 907 and possibly the Ford made Bush Hog) mowers. The design and manufacturing of the two are different.

And the scoop knives provide a good fine finish cut if they are sharp. Someone else (I think on this forum) swapped side slicer for scoop knives on a Caroni and got a much better cut than the rough cut side slicers.

Each type of knife has it's place. Hammers are good for cutting anything, including rocks, but don't leave superior finish. Large side slicers are good for rough cutting, but leave "V" shapes. Scoops are good for rough and finish cutting (but not the best at either). Small side slicers are good for fine finish cutting due to the number of blades and overlapping.

 

[leonz]

The airplane wings of the old jet aircraft like the B58 valkyrie and the jet aircraft fighters used during the vietnam war have the delta wing shape which resembles the stamped and folded scoop knives.

The sawtooth pattern noticed in good grass sod occurs due to mowing shorter and the mounting stations securing the side slicer knives in the vertical position as the mounting holes for the knives are punched circular mounting holes.

The proof of this "theory" is my 48 inch lawn Genie Pick up mower in my backyard under a waterproof tarpaulin.

The sharp long tapered edge of the old style side slicer knives creates lift and as a result the knives become horizontal when the flail mower rotor reaches 2200 rpm plus as the slotted mounting holes allow the knife to slide outward do to the centrifugal force and become airborne even though they are secure in the mounting station as it is a wide loop allowing the knives to become near horizontal due to the long tapered edge of the side slicer knife that is much longer than the current side slicer knives that are available.

If you look at the old gas powered carrier based aircraft they have the folding wings and when you see how they fold out flat you will see what I am describing as these airplane wings look like these flail mower knives when folded out and the tapered side slicer knives are horizontal.