Compact Tractors are Designed All Wrong

[MossRoad]

Well, if it's any consolation, the thread was started about 2 months before I found TBN, and about 6 months before I purchase my machine. I shopped around a long time and weighed all the pros and cons quite a while before purchasing this thing. It's not a tractor. That's for sure.

We purchased our IH2500b around 1990. It's a 2wd 50hp tractor loader with a cab, and it weighed around 8000# with filled tires and an implement on the back. I used it for 10 years on our remote property. It was just too big for our needs after the initial digging in of the road and 5 years of brush hogging between rows of newly planted trees. It couldn't fit down the rows anymore, it couldn't go into the existing woods without first cutting down trees to widen the path. It could push over trees very nicely, though. But the R4 tires frequently spun in the sand (14 of our 20 acres is sand). So it was time to look for a smaller machine. Also, our lawn tractor at home was only a 26" cut little Simplicity, about 30 years old, and the engine was getting weak, and the center joint in the frame was locking up, so it couldn't flex anymore.

I wanted something that I could us at home to mow the lawn and plow the snow, and something to use at the remote property to maintain a few miles of trails, and haul firewood out of the property. I also wanted to help maintain the little league park, as well as my wife's church. So I started looking for something that would do those tasks.

It was during those searches that I found TBN and that thread. So I joined and started asking questions. I thought about my tasks, the time I had to do them, my budget, etc.... and narrowed it down to needing about a 1500# machine, give or take. I researched a lot of machines and narrowed it down to 5; Green, Orange, Blue, Yellow and PT greeen. Then I went to dealers and started giving them the hands-on look overs. And I kept asking owners questions and listening to their answers. On my pros and cons list, the PT425 came out the winner for my needs. That's all there was to it.

It performs the tasks I need it to perform better than a conventional tractor of the same size and weight. Plain and simple. I've said it hundreds of times that this type of machine is not for everyone. It won't plow dirt or load a pickup truck over the side. Well, I don't plow dirt, and I don't load a pickup truck over the side. But it will load a car hauler trailer, and that trailer will haul more than a standard pickup anyway. I can unload the trailer with the machine, too. I can't unload a pickup with the machine. So unless I buy a dumptruck, or a bed tipper for a pickup, the car hauler makes more sense, in that I can haul the machine and I can haul materials on it. So we hauled the trailer with our 3/4 ton van, and when that rusted out, we bought a used Suburban. That hauls it well, too.

The whole goal for me was to have as few machines as possible to maintain and store, as few vehicles as possible to maintain while still being able to haul 6 people around comfortably, and getting a machine that does my tasks best within my time and budget constraints. I couldn't find a conventional tractor that met those criteria better than the PT did.

The point of this discussion is to see that there are other types of machines that can accomplish some tasks in a different way that may actually be better than the way we are used to doing things. I was all set to get a "real" tractor back in 2001 until the guys that started this thread munged it all up for me.

It's not just me. There's a bunch of PT owners that also have conventional tractors. They'll all tell you similar things. The PT is very good at some things, pretty good at others, just OK at some, and not at all good for others. Ask them what their go-to machine is though...

And, again, it's not just Power Tracs. There's a whole bunch of different machines out there that may be better at certain tasks than a conventional tractor. It's worth looking into them. You may find something you really like.

 

[airbiscuit]

Well said, but you forgot to mention that Powertracs are also cute :drink:

 

[MossRoad]

Sounds good! :thumbsup: Most interesting to me if it's on an equal price basis with multiple styles of machine.

Yeah, pricing has to be taken into consideration. When I bought mine way back in 2001, it was the least expensive option. I went back and looked at my comparison sheet from 2001 and here's what I wrote to myself....

"Price: The last driving factor in my decision to purchase the PT425 was the price. $8000.00 for the tactor with the lift arms and quick attach installed. All of the implements also were very resonably priced. The small bucket was $300.00. The teeth were $100.00, the 60" mower was $1200.00, the 60" power angle snow blade was $450.00 and the large light material bucket was under $400.00. All told, the entire package was under $13,000.00 delivered. I couldn't touch that price for any of the other units that I looked at."

Not included in that description was that I also got a set of factory loading ramps for an additional $100, and a spare hydraulic filter (whoopy :laughing, and that was still the under $13,0000 mentioned. The closest in price, then, was the Kubota BX2200 @ $8900 for the tractor. The JD 4100 was $12,500, and the Cub Cadet 7205 was over $14K!!! I don't have a price for the NH TC21D in my list. However, none of those prices included the loader.... the PT425 is a loader, so it came with the loader and quick attach installed.

I also have in my notes that I felt cramped on all of those other machines, with the exeption of the NH. I remember it being extremely comfortable, and I probably could have sat on it and operated all day long. Wish I'd have recorded the price back then.

 

[MossRoad]

Well said, but you forgot to mention that Powertracs are also cute :drink:

Yes, they are, thanks! :laughing:

But don't forget, there are several other smaller and larger models with different capabilities and functions.

Have a look....

Power Trac Products

 

[4570Man]

Yeah, you and I think it would be faster, but it won't be. Put a full bucket of moon dust in there and try and drive at full speed forward over bumpy ground, turns, stops/starts etc... only one way to find out. We need to get a head-to-head going somewhere.

I’m well aware you can’t drive a tractor full speed with a loaded bucket across rough ground. I really don’t think your ground speed will be any better in the same conditions. In either case I think you’re still using the wrong tool for the job.

 

[MossRoad]

I知 well aware you can稚 drive a tractor full speed with a loaded bucket across rough ground. I really don稚 think your ground speed will be any better in the same conditions. In either case I think you?*e still using the wrong tool for the job.

That's where you're missing the point of the discussion. It's not the best tool for the job. I've said that a bunch of times. It's not about the best tool for the job.

It's about two different types of equipment of similar size and weight attempting to do the same task.

In this case, it's an approximately 1500# conventional tractor VS an approximately 1500# PT425 moving material head-to-head from point A to point B.

And thanks for making my point, as I CAN drive a fully loaded bucket across rough ground at full speed. How?

The machine goes the full 8mph in forward AND reverse. If you have a really heavy load, like a full bucket of granulated limestone sitting 2" off the ground, and try and drive forward with any speed and hit a bump, the bucket will bounce off the ground and stop the tractor, throwing the operator forward, or gouging the soil, tear up the grass, etc.... and spilling part of the load. This is true for both types of machines.

However, if you go in reverse, just like a loaded forklift, the bucket acts like wheelie bars and just slides along should you bounce. It does surprisingly little damage to the ground, spills nothing, and doesn't slow the machine down one bit. So I travel backwards at high speed with a large loaded bucket and forward at high speed with a light empty bucket. That's one of the things that makes it so much faster than a conventional tractor.

It's also more stable than a conventional tractor, as it sits much lower to the ground. You can take curves and bumps much faster.

Since the tires are of equal size, it doesn't matter which way you're going. The machine doesn't care.

With the armrests on the seat, it's quite comfortable to travel in either direction at full speed.

 

[MossRoad]

As an example... here's a video of me using my logging tongs for the first time. I enjoyed them so much, I made a video. I drive down the road to the edge of the woods and turn right, climb a 2' bump and drive into the forest and grab a log. Then I back out, and once I re-grab the log after I dropped it at the edge, I travel the full 8mph in reverse back to the log landing. It goes much smoother than that, as I'm driving and operating the steering and FEL one handed and videoing with the other. It's quite productive, as evidenced by the pile of firewood trees at the landing.... it's kinda tough dropping the log without steering, hence the multiple bounces at the end to get the tongs to release. If you turn the steering wheel while doing that, it's much better, but I was videoing, so there you. go. :laughing:

 

[jjp8182]

What really surprises me about 3pt hitches is the lack of a standard quick attach these days. It has to be purchased separately. If I still had a 3pt, I'd definately convert all of my stuff to use a quick attach.

So let me ask you this... While you are good at changing 3pt implements, and it takes not too much time, do you look forward to changing implements? Do you plan your projects so that you don't have to change implments? Or do you in the back of your mind think, crud, I've got to change an implement again? :laughing:

I know a lot, and I mean a LOT of people have multiple tractors just so that they don't have to switch implements.

I know when I had my IH2500b, I did not enjoy dropping my brush hog and switching to my box blade and vice versa. If the thing wasn't set down on even ground, it was going to be a pain. And that's back when I was big and strong and could just pick up the end of the box blade, or grab the side of the brush hog, lift them up and move it over to where I needed it. It was still a pain in just the aggravation VS the Power Trac's quick attach.

There used to be a product called the Delta Hitch. That looked promising. But I can't find them anymore. Don't know if they're still in business.

Really doesn't even show up in my thought process, as it's just part of doing the task(s) at hand - granted I'm not going to go out of my way to change implements (front or back) when I don't need to just because it's inefficient and the engineering & economic sides of me pretty much abhors inefficiency. Truthfully though I've also started to realize that if hooking up an implement via 3pt is putting me in a foul-mood it's probably a sign I'm dehydrated, suffering from heat-exhaustion or otherwise in a condition where I probably shouldn't be operating heavy equipment.

On the other hand the 3pt quick hitches, just irriate me to no end as it requires the alignment of one plane to another ...which is a complete nuisance when everything isn't on flat and level ground (might be easier with a top & tilt kit, but I havn't picked up one of those just yet).

 

[jjp8182]

I wanted something that I could us at home to mow the lawn and plow the snow, and something to use at the remote property to maintain a few miles of trails, and haul firewood out of the property. I also wanted to help maintain the little league park, as well as my wife's church. So I started looking for something that would do those tasks.

I thought about my tasks, the time I had to do them, my budget, etc....

The point of this discussion is to see that there are other types of machines that can accomplish some tasks in a different way that may actually be better than the way we are used to doing things.

There's a whole bunch of different machines out there that may be better at certain tasks than a conventional tractor. It's worth looking into them. You may find something you really like.

I think these points really are the key to it all -- essentially: identify what needs to be done, what the limitations are, and then go start looking at the options for doing those tasks withing the limitations identified..... and don't get wrapped around the axle about what type of machine fits the bill.

Granted conventional tractors do have a serious advantage when it comes to overall awareness of the purchasing public (especially when many homeowners are already used to using tractor-looking riding lawnmowers), though that might be changing as more manufactures start expanding into smaller equipment.

Though machines with controls similar to cars and riding mowers will probably maintain an advantage as I know many people that have a hard enough time wrapping their head around using anything other than a steering wheel that they refuse to even consider buying something that doesn't have one (which pretty much rules out zero-turns, skidsteers and anything else that uses a joystick for steering/driving).

 

[MossRoad]

Really doesn't even show up in my thought process, as it's just part of doing the task(s) at hand - granted I'm not going to go out of my way to change implements (front or back) when I don't need to just because it's inefficient and the engineering & economic sides of me pretty much abhors inefficiency. Truthfully though I've also started to realize that if hooking up an implement via 3pt is putting me in a foul-mood it's probably a sign I'm dehydrated, suffering from heat-exhaustion or otherwise in a condition where I probably shouldn't be operating heavy equipment.

On the other hand the 3pt quick hitches, just irriate me to no end as it requires the alignment of one plane to another ...which is a complete nuisance when everything isn't on flat and level ground (might be easier with a top & tilt kit, but I havn't picked up one of those just yet).

My QA has a traingle like male plate on the FEL arms, and females on the attachments. It's easy peasy and self aligning on even uneven surfaces. That delta hitch I was referring to earlier is very similar. A lot larger for the 3pt hitches, but it's the same principle.