Smoke detectors?

[quicksandfarmer]

I'm thinking of replacing my smoke detectors and I'm looking for some first-hand experience and recommendations.

I have hard-wired smoke detectors that were installed by the electrician when we had the house remodeled a few years ago. They have 9-volt battery backup. At the time RI had its own regulations which were a bit overboard, so we have 9 of them (RI has since gone to the national code). The things are a pain in the ***. The batteries go out all the time, and when they do _- usually in the middle of the night -- they chirp intermittently. There's no visual indicator of which one is out, and there's a number of spots in the house where there are two within a few feet of each other so the sound isn't much help in locating which one is chirping. I've taken to buying batteries in bulk from Amazon, and replacing them all at once, but that's a pain.

We are close to the ocean and often get fog. When that happens sometimes it sets off the smoke detectors. Usually that's around 3 in the morning.

The original ones were the ionizing type. The one on the first floor would often get set off by cooking in the kitchen. I replaced it with a photoelectric type, the First Alert 7010B four years ago. That solved the false alarm problem. Unfortunately, last week it just started going off for no reason. Reading the reviews on Amazon, this seems to be a common problem for this model.

The latest thing seems to be detectors with sealed lithium batteries with a 10 year life. Since that's the lifetime of the smoke detector anyway, the idea is that you never change the battery, when the battery runs out you just replace the whole unit -- or even all the units in the house. That appeals to me.

Finally, Rhode Island requires that one detector on each floor also be a carbon monoxide detector.

So, does anyone have recommendations for a model of smoke detector that:
* Is hard wired
* Has a 10-year sealed battery
* Is resistant to false alarms
* Is durable
* Has a visual indicator in addition to an audible indicator when the battery is low
* Is available in a combo carbon monoxide detector model

Oh, and is reasonably priced.

Thanks.

 

[RNeumann]

I’ve had both the First Alert smoke and smoke/co detectors in the last few places I’ve built. I’ve had zero issues. Home Depot was about as cheap as I found them- cheaper than my wholesaler.
They make “10 year” 9v batteries you can buy if you don’t want ones that are hardwired in- I haven’t seen many issues with them. I do energizer Lithium batts and change those every other year- maybe every third year.
The original battery change message we gave the public was change your batteries when you change your clocks- so twice a year. But with Lithium and hard wiring you can extend that.
Smoke detectors are wear items- it has to be given the concept/design. Thinking that some brand or model has figured a way to beat that isn’t the case. With that, I wouldn’t over spend.

 

[HillStreet]

I agree with RNeumann. Built my house three years ago and have not replaced a battery since but will do it this fall. Detectors are hard wired and combo smoke and carbon monoxide. We have a whole house generator so the batteries in the detectors hardly are used. We do have an occasional false alarm due to cooking but hey, they work.

 

[tjkubota93]

I have 2 or 3 combo fire/c0 alarms that work well. They are alot better on batteries than the other types we have had. They work well. They also talk when they go off. I will have to check the brand when I get home. And the batteries!

 

[tjkubota93]

They are kidde brand. One is a nighthawk, the other just says combination.

We had a first alert. It started needing batteries once a month. So I called them, the lady was very argumentative and did not want to warranty it or believe what I said. So I told her based on this I will throw this POS in the trash and NEVER buy anything from your company again. So that's why they are both kidde now.

 

[GLyford]

I have had no problems with brands, but have with location.

The one at the base of my stairs goes off 2 or 3 times a year. Since all the units are wired together, that causes other problems. When we moved in, that unit wasn't signal compatible with the others, I eventually figured out why. Current detector for that location has nuisance tripped until it was unplugged from the ceiling, resting on a shelf nearby it hasn't peeped except to ask for batteries. Every detector (3? 4?) we have had at that spot has nuisance tripped.

I am thinking it is a dust and airflow issue. When we have the windows open spring and fall, we get fine dust all through the house, not just pollen, our house lot is sandy and we get a very fine layer of sand colored dust. I also know that I smell cooking odors upstairs before I even smell them in other rooms downstairs, so there is good airflow coming up the stairs. The detector at the top of the stairs never trips.

So I am wondering how far from the stairs I can move the detector and still meet code...

 

[CobyRupert]

When trying to locate chirping detector:

Hint: Detectors usually chirp at a constant interval (60 seconds, 120 seconds, etc..). If you use a watch or "1 Mississippi, 2 Mississippi...." to count down it makes locating the chirping detector a lot easier/methodical.

 

[oosik]

I've had a smoke detector for about 15 years now. The only time it goes off - low battery-2AM OR sometimes when I use one of the remotes for the TV. My house has a vaulted ceiling and I'm either going to move the detector to a lower location or get one of those lithium batteries. About the time I fall off the ladder - servicing that @#$% detector - it goes in the burn barrel.

Besides there is no law out here in the pucker weeds regarding any type detector.

 

[bruceha2000]

We have a whole house generator so the batteries in the detectors hardly are used.

The batteries in hardwired units should NEVER get used except during power outages. Yet the batteries fail well before their "date". Thus something in the hardwired units is draining the batteries. There SHOULD be no battery changes/costs in hardwired units. Replacing them every 6 months "in case" is a waste of money and batteries in the dump that shouldn't be there. I have the same problem with a propane detector that is plugged into an outlet :mur:

To the OP.
Half the house was rebuilt 5 years ago. The electricians put in hardwired units as required by code. And 1' down from the ceiling as required. Not a great plan upstairs where there is no attic and the wall the units are on is 11'. I can JUST barely reach them if I'm on my toes on a chair. MAYBE I can get the drawer and batteries out. MAYBE I can get new batteries in. Plus, the only way to kill them while attempting this is to trip the breaker they are on ... which happens to be the same one as EVERY light in the kitchen. Which means dealing with the one near the kitchen also requires a flashlight (shorter ceiling so no ladder). And of course the batteries do go in the middle of the night. I don't keep a 6' ladder in the house and I don't want to hike out to the barn in the middle of the night to get one. I got fed up last year and replaced the 2 upstairs units with First Alert 10 year battery units. One is smoke only, one smoke and CO.

It makes no sense to me to require hardwired units with battery backup (in case the power goes out) when the batteries MUST be routinely replaced and will work just fine for the short amount of time you need to get out of the house if there is a fire. We have had 1 false alarm. EVERY hardwired unit went off. What good is that? Don't you want to go in the direction that is AWAY from the fire? How do you know where the fire is if there are half a dozen or more units spread through the house all alerting at the same time?

BTW, the battery life is truly undeterminable. 2 years ago I was having a hard time finding out which unit was telling me the battery was going. I finally found it in the crawl space. Makes sense to have one there since there is a propane furnace in the space. But the batteries in that unit lasted 3 years. Others have needed replacing in less than a year.

 

[N2DFire]

The batteries in hardwired units should NEVER get used except during power outages. Yet the batteries fail well before their "date". Thus something in the hardwired units is draining the batteries. There SHOULD be no battery changes/costs in hardwired units. Replacing them every 6 months "in case" is a waste of money and batteries in the dump that shouldn't be there. I have the same problem with a propane detector that is plugged into an outlet :mur:

To the OP.
Half the house was rebuilt 5 years ago. The electricians put in hardwired units as required by code. And 1' down from the ceiling as required. Not a great plan upstairs where there is no attic and the wall the units are on is 11'. I can JUST barely reach them if I'm on my toes on a chair. MAYBE I can get the drawer and batteries out. MAYBE I can get new batteries in. Plus, the only way to kill them while attempting this is to trip the breaker they are on ... which happens to be the same one as EVERY light in the kitchen. Which means dealing with the one near the kitchen also requires a flashlight (shorter ceiling so no ladder). And of course the batteries do go in the middle of the night. I don't keep a 6' ladder in the house and I don't want to hike out to the barn in the middle of the night to get one. I got fed up last year and replaced the 2 upstairs units with First Alert 10 year battery units. One is smoke only, one smoke and CO.

It makes no sense to me to require hardwired units with battery backup (in case the power goes out) when the batteries MUST be routinely replaced and will work just fine for the short amount of time you need to get out of the house if there is a fire. We have had 1 false alarm. EVERY hardwired unit went off. What good is that? Don't you want to go in the direction that is AWAY from the fire? How do you know where the fire is if there are half a dozen or more units spread through the house all alerting at the same time?

BTW, the battery life is truly undeterminable. 2 years ago I was having a hard time finding out which unit was telling me the battery was going. I finally found it in the crawl space. Makes sense to have one there since there is a propane furnace in the space. But the batteries in that unit lasted 3 years. Others have needed replacing in less than a year.

The reason Smoke Detectors are mounted 1' from the ceiling (and not lower on inconveniently high ceilings) is because of the volume of smoke required to fill the space above the detector before it trips. The larger the "gap" from detector to ceiling means the greater and more advanced the fire conditions would have become before you are alerted to the fire.

The reason Hardwired units have a battery back-up is not in the likelihood of a fire during an (unrelated) power outage but rather if the fire caused the power failure (to the building or just the unit) that it will still operate for a short period as a stand alone device.

As to your comments on why they drain the battery even when powered by outside sources - I have no idea but I'm sure if you e-mail one of the manufactures they could tell you (and for the record, I don't get it either).

And the reason you want linked detectors is to alert you to a fire as quickly as possible - i.e. you're asleep on one end of the house when a fire starts on another floor at the opposite end of the house. Having several non-linked units could allow the fire to have a very large head start before you are alerted or even worse you could be overcome by CO and other poisonous gasses from a remotely located fire before ever being awakened by the closer smoke detectors.

Depending on who's studies you read a free burning fire that has all the fuel & oxygen it needs will double in size every 15 to 60 seconds. Every bit of advanced warning you can get (especially when you're asleep) is critical.

You should always have a primary and back-up exit route from bedrooms and a designated meeting point for your family. Never rely on what detector is going of to guide you out of a fire.

If you research you will find that very few fire fatalities were caused by the fire itself (i.e. they burnt to death) - the vast majority succumb to the fire gasses and byproducts of combustion long before the fire ever gets to them. This is why early / remote detection is so important.

I'll get off my soap box now, but I will say I'd rather have you all here complaining about the inconveniences of smoke detectors, rather than you not being here because you didn't have them.

Stay safe everyone.

 

[quicksandfarmer]

I'd rather have you all here complaining about the inconveniences of smoke detectors, rather than you not being here because you didn't have them.

The problem is when they become too much of a nuisance people defeat them -- unplug them and take the batteries out, or put tape over the sensors. Then they're not doing any good at all.

 

[hawkeye08]

We need to replace our smoke detectors also, have not decided which brand yet or which type.. My wife does not like me on the ladder so she goes up, takes it off the wall and hands it down to me for battery replacement, I replace said battery, hand it back to her to be re installed..

 

[bruceha2000]

The reason Smoke Detectors are mounted 1' from the ceiling (and not lower on inconveniently high ceilings) is because of the volume of smoke required to fill the space above the detector before it trips. The larger the "gap" from detector to ceiling means the greater and more advanced the fire conditions would have become before you are alerted to the fire.

Yep, I understand that.

The reason Hardwired units have a battery back-up is not in the likelihood of a fire during an (unrelated) power outage but rather if the fire caused the power failure (to the building or just the unit) that it will still operate for a short period as a stand alone device.

I get that but the battery in either hardwired or standalone units has power to alarm plenty long enough for you to get out of the house. I see no reason for hardwired units in a home.

...

And the reason you want linked detectors is to alert you to a fire as quickly as possible - i.e. you're asleep on one end of the house when a fire starts on another floor at the opposite end of the house. Having several non-linked units could allow the fire to have a very large head start before you are alerted or even worse you could be overcome by CO and other poisonous gasses from a remotely located fire before ever being awakened by the closer smoke detectors.

Depending on who's studies you read a free burning fire that has all the fuel & oxygen it needs will double in size every 15 to 60 seconds. Every bit of advanced warning you can get (especially when you're asleep) is critical.

You should always have a primary and back-up exit route from bedrooms and a designated meeting point for your family. Never rely on what detector is going of to guide you out of a fire.


I don't know about your house but there is no way anyone in my house wouldn't be woken up by a single unit alarming anywhere in the house. They are amazingly loud. And I repeat the reason I don't think they should all go off at once - yes we need 2 escape paths. WHICH do we choose when all the alarms are going off?? If only one goes off, we can go the opposite direction.

If you research you will find that very few fire fatalities were caused by the fire itself (i.e. they burnt to death) - the vast majority succumb to the fire gasses and byproducts of combustion long before the fire ever gets to them. This is why early / remote detection is so important.

I'll get off my soap box now, but I will say I'd rather have you all here complaining about the inconveniences of smoke detectors, rather than you not being here because you didn't have them.

Thanks!

Stay safe everyone.

We need to replace our smoke detectors also, have not decided which brand yet or which type.. My wife does not like me on the ladder so she goes up, takes it off the wall and hands it down to me for battery replacement, I replace said battery, hand it back to her to be re installed..

So get the 10 year units. Neither of you will need to go up on the ladder for a very long time.

 

[QRTRHRS]

About a year ago, we bought a different home. I updated the four detectors to Kidde FireX 21007624 smoke or carbon monoxide. The units have voice alarms advising you of either threat, front loading battery so you do not have to remove the unit from the ceiling. I had to change the electrical plug on all of the fixtures that plugs into the back of the detectors. No false alarms in the year that we have had them. Found the best price on Ebay.

 

[N2DFire]

Before I start my responses, let me preface by saying that I agree with you all 100%. I am not trying to be argumentative (and hope I don't come across that way).
I'm just simply trying to answer the questions put forth and hopefully educate and keep good discussion going. I'm no expert by any means & am learning from you guys too. :thumbsup:
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As a home owner / resident I hate them as much as you. I have vaulted ceilings for the great out of reach locations. I have linked units so one chirps, they all chirp (by the way if your units have an indicator LED on them, the one in alarm / low battery will be the one with the light on, the rest will just be audible alert only)

I recently replaced all my units AND put brand new batteries in them. Less than 2 weeks later one is alerting low battery - I swapped batteries between it and another unit as a test and both were happy - go figure.

The problem is when they become too much of a nuisance people defeat them -- unplug them and take the batteries out, or put tape over the sensors. Then they're not doing any good at all.

The issue is we as human beings are our own worst enemy. How may of those problems/conditions that turn the alarms into a nuisance are, in reality, our own fault? We pick the wrong type or mount them less than ideal locations, we don't change the batteries according to the instructions, we don't clean them, we paint over them, etc.

I'm not saying they couldn't be made better / work better. But working with what we have at the moment - we cause a lot of our own problems and then blame the units.

I get that but the battery in either hardwired or standalone units has power to alarm plenty long enough for you to get out of the house. I see no reason for hardwired units in a home.

Again - saving us from ourselves. Case in point - my grandmother used to never be able to hear the low battery chirp on hers. Now imagine if she were the shut-in type that no one ever checked on and the battery died then there was a fire and the alarm didn't go off because the battery was dead. Or the case where the battery is removed because it was chirping annoyingly all the time and the owner said I'll get a new one tomorrow. Months later still no battery and then there's a fire.

Hard wiring provides an alternate and (mostly) reliable power source.

I don't know about your house but there is no way anyone in my house wouldn't be woken up by a single unit alarming anywhere in the house. They are amazingly loud. And I repeat the reason I don't think they should all go off at once - yes we need 2 escape paths. WHICH do we choose when all the alarms are going off?? If only one goes off, we can go the opposite direction.

There have been several studies that show that children will sleep through the alarm on smoke detectors. Now imagine a scenario where the adults & children's bedrooms are separated. Linked units are more likely to alert parents to an issue on the children's side of the house sooner. Or if a fire were in a basement and the occupants bedrooms are on the 2nd floor.

In the area where I run, we have several million dollar "Mc Mansion" resort lake homes. (I am not fortunate enough to live in one) I'm not sure you could hear the smoke alarm in the "next room" in some of these places they're so large.

Again hard wiring provides the linking capability. Newer units are starting to utilize wireless linking technologies, but hard wired remains the simplest & most reliable.

As for the escape route - always take the shortest/quickest one to the outside unless you find it blocked by fire (which is usually a window, we're just creatures of habit and want to go thru the house to a door, and if you're on an above ground floor - fire escape ladders are a great idea).


In your specific situation (Home, age, health, family make-up, etc) a couple of old school stand alone units may in fact be all that you would need. Unfortunately the device manufacturers and code writers are forced to look at a much larger picture and then work to that lowest common denominator. That's why you have what we have so far. Is it perfect? Not by any means, but it's better than what we had.


I apologize if I seem too "preachy", but I've seen families standing barefoot in the snow with nothing left but what few clothes they were wearing from fires that could have been much less severe if smoke alarms had been present (or worked) and the fire detected sooner. I have unfortunately seen them lose more than just a home and possessions.

Like I said before, I am just as annoyed & inconvenienced by them as you or the next person but they are a small price to pay for all the potential "bad things" they could prevent and if all my "preaching" saves one family or even one person from going through all that, then brother show me to the pulpit.

 

[bruceha2000]

McMansion :laughing:
Yeah I can see where one of those could have a fire at one 'end' and a single alarm not heard at the other 'end'.
"Honey, do you hear something? Nah, it is just the wind go back to sleep".

Interesting note on the "alarm/low battery" LED, I didn't know that. There are 2 LEDs on our hardwired units. I presume the green one means power is on since they stay on. But the red ones, presumably the "alarm/low battery" LED, flash occasionally. I wonder if that is a battery test and why the "never been used" batteries go dead.

Hopefully I'll still have my hearing when I need to replace the ten year detectors in 9 years. And I'll need to replace the other 3 in 5 years when they have hit their 10 year lifespan.

 

[CMV]

May have been mentioned - just skimmed thread - but I had same problem with the 7 smoke detectors in our house. 9V backup batteries never fail other than 0230-0330hrs. And when one fails, the remainder seem to go within 60 days. At first, I replaced with regular name brand 9V alkaline batteries but was really upset appx 18 months later and the 0230 hrs chirping began again. We aren't prone to power outages & they rarely last more than a few hrs, so no idea if whatever the detector does to test backup battery state drains it a lot or what, but they just seem to go thru batteries way too fast. So finally about 5 yrs ago bought these: Amazon.com: Energizer Ultimate, Li 9V-2 Emod: Health & Personal Care

@ $7 ea really not thrilled, but at least 5 yrs now and not a single chirp from any of them.

Plus - it scares the bejesus out of my dog when they start to chirp. So not distressing him is good too.

 

[quicksandfarmer]

The issue is we as human beings are our own worst enemy. How may of those problems/conditions that turn the alarms into a nuisance are, in reality, our own fault? We pick the wrong type or mount them less than ideal locations, we don't change the batteries according to the instructions, we don't clean them, we paint over them, etc.

I'm the OP who started this thread. An alternate title may have been "help me pick the right type of smoke detector." I thought I'd did a pretty good job of outlining my needs and issues, but I haven't gotten much in the way of specific advice so far. Any thoughts about what type/brand I should be looking at?

 

[tjkubota93]

I'm the OP who started this thread. An alternate title may have been "help me pick the right type of smoke detector." I thought I'd did a pretty good job of outlining my needs and issues, but I haven't gotten much in the way of specific advice so far. Any thoughts about what type/brand I should be looking at?

Kidde combo unit from big box

 

[quicksandfarmer]

Kidde combo unit from big box

Thanks. Combo smoke/CO or combo photoelectric/ionizing?