Confirm I'm doing it right. Adding 3 spool for remotes

[Everhard]

Hi all, I just picked up a 3 spool to add 3 remotes to my tractor - Kioti Ck20s. Currently it's got the stock one remote (no factory option for more) which I use for the hydraulic top link or the backhoe when mounted.

My plan is to hook up the 3 spool just like the backhoe hooks up - I'll hook the 3 spool into the factory remotes, flip the remote lever into the detent position which will then allow me to use the 3 spool. (Obviously I'm skipping over the details of setting up the outlets from the spool where hydraulics will hook up, mounting the spool etc. )

Am I missing anything with regards to the hydraulics or will this work as I'm anticipating?

Thanks all,
E.

 

[ericm979]

If you connect the 3 spool's P port to the stock remote's T port (plumb the valves serially) you'll be able to use all four remotes to operate things rather than using the one remote to operate the new 3 spool.

 

[Everhard]

The stock valve is bolts directly to the body so there's no external ports on it aside from the 2 lines going to the quick disconnects at the rear? (Hope I'm making sense) for example it's not like the loader spool that has lines plumbed to and from it.

Not that I wouldn't be happy with 4 ports!

I have half debated plumbing it after the loader valve but I'd rather not cut into lines if I don't have to.

E.

 

[ericm979]

There has to be four ports on the stock valve. In and out are connected to the quick connects. And Pressure and Tank ports for the valve to get pressure from the tractor and to pass it on to the rest of the hydraulic system (the 3pt usually being the last in the chain as it's valve dumps in to the tank).

Even if the valve is bolted to the transmission and the T port goes to the 3pt without a line there has to be a line to the P port that is receiving pressure from the loader valve's PB port. You can insert your valve into the chain there.

You don't need to (and should not) cut any lines. You can disconnect them and connect your lines. For example you can disconnect the line from the loader's PB port to the stock valve and connect your line to the PB port. That line runs to the new valve's P port. The new valves's T port has a line that runs back to the area of the loader valve and connects to the original line that was in the loader's PB and runs to the stock valve's P. That's how the dealer added valve on my Branson was done. Keeps all the stock parts in place and unmodified.

 

[Everhard]

I'm going to head out and look at the lines vs go by memory. (I installed the rear remote valve option myself years ago. )
I think it's a hard line that goes from the loader valve rearward to the rear remote valve so it's not as simple as taking it off and plumbing the new valve in there. But I'll go confirm that as I could be "full of it".

E.

 

[Everhard]

So yes it's a hard line that goes from the loader valve back to the remote/auxiliary valve at the rear. As such I don't see how to put my valve between the 2. (As much as I like that idea. )
I suppose technically I could completely remove that hard line, go directly from the loader valve to my new valve, and then run another new line to the in port on the remote/auxiliary valve.
But that raises lots of challenges as there's not much space at both ends of that hard line. (At the loader valve it comes off at a 90 to go back. ) not to mention figuring out what that threading is where it connects to the valve. I'll see if I can dig up info on the loader valve later on today.

E.

 

[Everhard]

Here's a drawing - shows the loader valve and the hard line that goes back to the remote valve. #6 is the remote valve



So as I see it the only way I could really do this would be to cut that hard line, then connect a line to it go to the new valve, then out that valve and connect to the other half of the hard line. I'd be tempted to try that if I got a second hard line to mess with. Plus then I'd have a stock hard line to use if needed.

In then meantime I think I'll do what I was originally considering - hooking the new 3 spool up to the quick connects from the rear remote. Yes it means I have 3 remotes not 4 but it's a quick setup. (and I'm getting this ready so I can control my snowblower so that needs to be going sooner than later!)

And then I can in my leisure figure out how to set it up as suggested between the loader and the remote valve.

E.

 

[Leejohn]

Maybe this drawing well help. This is not your valve, but most open centers work like this and it takes away back pressure and you shouldn't blow the spool orings.

 

[LouNY]

What you are proposing to do will work fine.
Your existing valve has the pressure in line from the loader and the output to your remotes,
the power beyond for your 3 point and the return to tank are most likely two ports cast into the valve body where it bolts to the tractor housing.

 

[Everhard]

Leejohn - Great diagram. That makes me realise if/when I do set up the new 3 spool between the loader valve and the remote valve I need to use the power beyond option and will have one line then going from that to the existing remote valve and another line I'll have to T into a return line somewhere. (There's the one coming off the loader valve.)

LouNY - Thanks - yes I think it's as you describe given when I hook the backhoe up to the existing remotes I have no issues and hooking the new 3 spool to the rear remotes should function exactly like the valve in the backhoe and have no issues. That was my main concern that I was missing something and that this wouldn't work.

Ideally it would be nice to set up the new 3 spool between the loader valve and the remote valve. As I said in my earlier post I think I'll do it the quick and easy way for now and then take my time to figure out how to plumb it between the existing valves later.

 

[ericm979]

So as I see it the only way I could really do this would be to cut that hard line, then connect a line to it go to the new valve, then out that valve and connect to the other half of the hard line.

I have made my own brake lines and then headed to the racetrack but I'd hesitate to cut a 3000 psi hydraulic line and assemble an end on it. You can get hydraulic rated adaptors for just about any fitting. If I were doing it I'd buy lines and use adaptors to match the fittings on the loader valve and stock remote.

 

[Gregster613]

Everhard, I'm not a hydraulic guru but why don't you simply replace that hard line with a flex hose line? Then you could couple up the valves as you desire. That is how my 3 spool valve was put in place and works just fine. Greg

 

[Everhard]

Ericm979 - Agreed, my thought was to take it to a hydraulic shop to make the ends, doing that myself would be out of my scope.

Gregster613 - My thought is depending on how much Kioti wants for that hard line I'd get one to cut and have ends put on. The space at the loader valve is tight and I don't know if I'd get a connector on there. Possibly. In any event right now I can't have the tractor down for any length of time at all because winter is right around the corner. But I do want to get that valve operational so that I can change the chute on my blower from manual rotation to hydraulic. I think I'll look at doing as you suggest. Also keep in mind in addition to replacing that hardline I'll also have to T into a return line as well.

I'm glad I did ask the initial question and the responses I got from all of you - I've learnt more, and ultimately it'll allow me to set this up better!
Thanks all!
E.

 

[MtnViewRanch]

Just curious, have your current single valve connected to a cylinder , pull the control lever all the way actuating the cylinder and at the same time raise the 3pt hitch.

What happens? Depending on how things are plumbed, there is a chance that the hitch will not raise. If the hitch does not raise, then what you want to do to get by is not going to workout very well for you.

Please report back.

 

[Everhard]

Mtnviewranch - I do that all the time, when my rear remotes are hooked up to the top link, when I adjust the top link the remotes take priority over the 3pth assuming I'd made an adjustment to the 3pth right before that. (For example I've a set of forks I use on the rear a lot)

So I see what you mean, to adjust the 3pth I'd have to first knock the stock rear remote lever back to center before using raising/lowering the 3pth.

I'm assuming even if none of the valves on the new 3 spool are being used just because the stock rear valve is activated it'll not allow the 3pth to move. Actually I've the backhoe hooked on at the moment so I can test it that way.

I'm at work so that test will happen tomorrow, thanks!

E.

 

[MtnViewRanch]

Mtnviewranch - I do that all the time, when my rear remotes are hooked up to the top link, when I adjust the top link the remotes take priority over the 3pth assuming I'd made an adjustment to the 3pth right before that. (For example I've a set of forks I use on the rear a lot)

So I see what you mean, to adjust the 3pth I'd have to first knock the stock rear remote lever back to center before using raising/lowering the 3pth.

I'm assuming even if none of the valves on the new 3 spool are being used just because the stock rear valve is activated it'll not allow the 3pth to move. Actually I've the backhoe hooked on at the moment so I can test it that way.

I'm at work so that test will happen tomorrow, thanks!

E.

Correct, if your stock valve is open, the 3pt will not raise, or that is how it is on most tractors with open center systems.

 

[N2DFire]

Some of this has been addressed already but I'm going to hit it again as part of one big answer

So yes it's a hard line that goes from the loader valve back to the remote/auxiliary valve at the rear. As such I don't see how to put my valve between the 2. (As much as I like that idea. )
I suppose technically I could completely remove that hard line, go directly from the loader valve to my new valve, and then run another new line to the in port on the remote/auxiliary valve.
But that raises lots of challenges as there's not much space at both ends of that hard line. (At the loader valve it comes off at a 90 to go back. ) not to mention figuring out what that threading is where it connects to the valve. I'll see if I can dig up info on the loader valve later on today.

On our CK35 the hard line from the FEL valve terminates into the rear end housing of the tractor but the remotes bolt up the same to a proprietary mating surface on the side of the rear end housing - so they're getting their flow from internal to the tractor instead of directly from the hard line like yours, however the process for replacing the hard line with 2 rubber lines is the same (and actually pretty easy)

I "split" this line (replaced it) to install a solenoid valve to act as a 3rd function on the FEL for a grapple. In that configuration there is no PB port (just P, T, and 2 work ports). All flow exiting one side of the valve is dumped downstream through the T port to the next "thing" in series and when the solenoid valve is not in operation, full system pressure goes in P, through the block, and out T to the rear of the tractor.

In my case that's alright because all the ports are milled in the same aluminum block so all of them can withstand the same pressure, however generally speaking T returns flow at a reduced pressure whereas PB is still full system operating pressure and you should verify your valve can be configured to operate this way, otherwise you are correct in that you will need to also somehow plumb the T port back to a tank line (which the best I can figure due to kioti's proprietary mounting of these rear SCV's - would be all the way up front on the FEL valve) and the PB port back to your factory rear remote.

As to the fittings / threads on the hard line, I'm willing to bet the FEL valve side is the same as ours, in which case it's a banjo type head on the hard line with a thru bolt into the valve body and it's 18mm metric.

Get an 18mm Male to 1/2" JIC Male 90* fitting and screw into the valve and that gets you pointed rearward quick & in little space. After that the hydraulic shop can match whatever is on the other end on your factory rear spool. Get an adapter for that to 1/2 JIC Male then get all the hoses with 1/2" JIC female and you won't need to worry about any twists routing the hose or adding swivels to tighten everything up good.

I have attached the write-up I did on our 3rd function valve. While it's not exactly the same thing, it holds a lot of basic similarities to what you want to do, so it might be some good reading for you.

Best of luck whatever way you decide to go.

 

[Everhard]

Thanks N2DFire! Great write-up. For some reason I didn't get notified that you'd posted up so I'm only seeing this now.

I pulled my seat up as I couldn't remember accurately how things looked there since it's been years since I added the rear remote. The one interesting thing I noted (see picture below) is that at the base of the hydraulic filler tube there's a line that T's into it, following that line back it's off the valve for the power steering. (Tank dump) I'm not sure why Kioti did that given there's a large diameter hardline return that feeds to the one side of the hydraulic filter that everything else that has a dump to tank feeds into. But that raises a question from me - Can I T into this return line for my dump to tank from my new valve? It sure would make my life easy if that's the case! In the pic below my finger on the left side is pointing to said return line.



My thought regarding how to hook the new valve up would be to disconnect the hardline going to the 3pt (see above pic, my finger on the right side of the pic.) given the distance that hardline is traveling I'm hoping I can convince it to move over a tiny bit, connect a line from it to the new valve and then connect a line from the PB on the new valve back to where the hardline connected to the 3pt. Doing it this way saves me some of the hassles N2Dfire experienced trying to connect up to the output on the loader valve. My tractor has even less space to play with than his has!

The only big question is are my connections the same size as a Kioti CK35.... Hmmm!

E.

 

[N2DFire]

Thanks N2DFire! Great write-up. For some reason I didn't get notified that you'd posted up so I'm only seeing this now.

I pulled my seat up as I couldn't remember accurately how things looked there since it's been years since I added the rear remote. The one interesting thing I noted (see picture below) is that at the base of the hydraulic filler tube there's a line that T's into it, following that line back it's off the valve for the power steering. (Tank dump) I'm not sure why Kioti did that given there's a large diameter hardline return that feeds to the one side of the hydraulic filter that everything else that has a dump to tank feeds into. But that raises a question from me - Can I T into this return line for my dump to tank from my new valve? It sure would make my life easy if that's the case! In the pic below my finger on the left side is pointing to said return line.

View attachment 576334

My thought regarding how to hook the new valve up would be to disconnect the hardline going to the 3pt (see above pic, my finger on the right side of the pic.) given the distance that hardline is traveling I'm hoping I can convince it to move over a tiny bit, connect a line from it to the new valve and then connect a line from the PB on the new valve back to where the hardline connected to the 3pt. Doing it this way saves me some of the hassles N2Dfire experienced trying to connect up to the output on the loader valve. My tractor has even less space to play with than his has!

The only big question is are my connections the same size as a Kioti CK35.... Hmmm!

E.

Between the dirt and the finger, I can't be 100% sure but the one on the right looks like the banjo style fittings.

Our tractor is on "the farm" at my parents place and I'm 95% sure I wrapped the hard line up and stashed it out in the barn someplace but if I get a chance this weekend I'll try to go dig it up and take a picture or two for reference.

If it is that style - finding something to go back into the rear end housing should be pretty easy but getting something to connect up to the hard line might be . . . interesting.

If I think about it (and it's not raining & wet everywhere) I'll try to get better shots of the fitting on the loader valve and stick a ruler in there for scale. It's definitely tight but getting rid of that NPT swivel fitting & adapter and going to JIC made a HUGE difference.


As for the Tank line - if it's like I'm picturing it in my head, you probably can T into that return line - I'll try and look at ours and see if it's the same also.

 

[Everhard]

Well by bad luck I was forced to go to the dealer. Went to use the tractor and the bucket couldn't roll back. Pulled things apart a small joint that connects the cable for the joystick had broken where it connects to the valve. So that's ordered.
Asked the guy there what he thought about tying into that steering return line - he didn't see that as a problem.
Regarding hooking up to the hardline - I'm thinking I'll take the fitting that goes between the hardline and the body at the rear and leave it on the hardline, then it should be easier to find something to connect up to the other end of that fitting.

E.