Planning on dropping Health Insurance. Change my mind.

[BrokeFarmerJohn]

Fellas,

Ones who follow Dave Ramsey, I didn’t buy my house or do a lot of things per his instruction lol.

Been watching videos of his.

He says the house should be bought no more than 15 year mortgage and shouldn’t be more than 1/4 your income lol.

 

[4570Man]

I’ve watched about 3/4s of the Dave Ramsey videos. I think they’re more geared towards people with zero money management not people capable of making smart money decisions that don’t live paycheck to paycheck.

 

[Travelover]

Excellent for you but that has to be about the stupidest thing I ever heard of. I bet the mortgage industry was behind that initiative.

Oh wait... we have a tax structure that says you pay LESS income tax if you have MORE kids using social programs, schools, etc.

What is stupid is that if you own commercial real estate, you can deduct imaginary yearly depreciation even if the property actually appreciates, effectively paying no income tax. And if you claim that most of the value of the property is in the appliances and parking area, you can accelerate that depreciation schedule.

 

[goeduck]

What is stupid is that if you own commercial real estate, you can deduct imaginary yearly depreciation even if the property actually appreciates, effectively paying no income tax. And if you claim that most of the value of the property is in the appliances and parking area, you can accelerate that depreciation schedule.

You are right, that is stupid

 

[BrokeFarmerJohn]

I’ve watched about 3/4s of the Dave Ramsey videos. I think they’re more geared towards people with zero money management not people capable of making smart money decisions that don’t live paycheck to paycheck.

I put 5% down and did a 20 year because I couldn’t swing a 15 year mortgage. He suggests 20% down.

My house payment is almost 1/2 of what I bring home. He suggests no more than 1/4.

I bought a 24k tractor and he prob would say that was stupid! Lol

I bought a 3k JD 455 mower and he would say that was stupid!

I dumped money into the hobby farm for chickens and cattle and he would prob say that was stupid!

There is a whole lot I did that he would prob be happy with like hustling, making money on the cars, van, trucks, project mowers, seasonal equipment I bought out of season etc.

What he says about things going wrong in the house doesn’t apply to me with my trades experience, I will never see those huge repair bills he talks about like A/C going out or roof leaking.

He says to get a great realtor in your corner, I bought my house threw a private sale 8k under auditors valuation, didn’t go threw any realtors. I could sell my house for 40k more today than what it was going for when I bought it 4 years ago.
House across the road sold for 40k more than I paid for mine and my house is bigger, his neighbor paid over 100k more than I did then turned around and put a new roof on that house, I can go on. I wouldn’t have been able to afford my house today even if I did save up like he says.

I like his system, I will use it to blast away the debt I am in but I would be really interested to see what he would say about my situation and the strategy I came up with on my own. Previous to this I just ran numbers and didn’t listen to the advise of anyone like Dave, there is too many of them out there and I didn’t have enough knowledge to know which one would work better than the other guys system.

 

[MossRoad]

Excellent for you but that has to be about the stupidest thing I ever heard of. I bet the mortgage industry was behind that initiative.

Oh wait... we have a tax structure that says you pay LESS income tax if you have MORE kids using social programs, schools, etc.

Yeah, you think it sounds stupid, but you don't have all the facts and haven't taken the time to think about it.

What areas of a town are the most run-down? The ones with rentals. So encouraging people to own their own homes is a good thing. Lowering their property taxes while they have a mortgage is a good incentive.

 

[MossRoad]

Fellas,

Ones who follow Dave Ramsey, I didn稚 buy my house or do a lot of things per his instruction lol.

Been watching videos of his.

He says the house should be bought no more than 15 year mortgage and shouldn稚 be more than 1/4 your income lol.

That's not an accurate way to word that.

He recommend your mortgage PAYMENT shouldn't be more than 25% of your income, not your mortgage shouldn't be more than 1/4 your income.

 

[BrokeFarmerJohn]

That's not an accurate way to word that.

He recommend your mortgage PAYMENT shouldn't be more than 25% of your income, not your mortgage shouldn't be more than 1/4 your income.

Thanks for the correction, that’s what I meant but wording it the way I did could cause it to be interpreted differently.

 

[CobyRupert]

Good points.

A little bit of open-ness regarding fees would be nice too so you have an idea what to expect going in, maybe tests, procedures, add-ons that could be eliminated up front to keep costs low. Every other industry seems to be able to do this.

You're getting at the nature (conflict) of health care in a capitalistic system ("the market").

When it comes to letting "the market" control health care, it isn't like shopping for a pair of shoes. Normal "market forces" don't apply.

It's been long established that most contracts aren't valid when one party enters them under duress. (i.e. when your life is threatened, when you have no options...but to die, I guess...).

Needing health care is pretty close to the definition of duress.


So....

 

[Richard]

To the OP...

You might drop insurance, fine.

Have you ever bought a lottery ticket? I'll presume at least once?

Playing the odds, you are going to have a much better probability of needing and using health insurance verses winning the lottery. (when you win the lottery, THEN you can cancel your insurance)

Until then, it's not a matter of "if" you need it....but rather, when will you need it.

So, along those lines, I'll ask you this (and give the answer that most people never think of when I put it to them)

"When is the BEST time to buy car insurance?"

Well... the answer is "before you have your accident".

Tell me when you'll have your accident and I can tell you when to start buying auto insurance. Since you don't know that, it's prudent to have it from day one. (forgetting about any state laws or moral issues)

 

[BrokeFarmerJohn]

To the OP...

You might drop insurance, fine.

Have you ever bought a lottery ticket? I'll presume at least once?

Playing the odds, you are going to have a much better probability of needing and using health insurance verses winning the lottery. (when you win the lottery, THEN you can cancel your insurance)

Until then, it's not a matter of "if" you need it....but rather, when will you need it.

So, along those lines, I'll ask you this (and give the answer that most people never think of when I put it to them)

"When is the BEST time to buy car insurance?"

Well... the answer is "before you have your accident".

Tell me when you'll have your accident and I can tell you when to start buying auto insurance. Since you don't know that, it's prudent to have it from day one. (forgetting about any state laws or moral issues)

I haven’t played the lottery in 4 or 5 years. I was feeling lucky last week, I picked the card that was almost calling to me($30 card), AND I WON!

Just tonight I stopped in a gas station to buy ice, got the same feeling and picked the card that was calling to me again ($5 ticket). Scratched it off in the car, AND HIT IT AGAIN!

I hit scratch offs twice in about a week period.

Not to side track from your point, I just wanted to share.

 

[KubotainNH]

For me Dave Ramsey had ideas that worked in my case. Not everything does and of course you can't change the past. Pick the nuggets you like and will work for you. If nothing else, info like that may give you different ways to look at things and the psychology that goes with it. One nugget is I used to think it would be best to spread any extra money across all the debt I had from when my kids and income were small, he shows that you are better off focusing on one at a time so that's what we did. The feeling you get from eliminating a piece of debt spurs you on. Hopefully after next month all I'll have left is a small mortgage.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

Regardless of one's view on Dave Ramsey's thoughts we do get older faster than we expect and is it easy to outlive our savings unless they are huge.

Sudden death is bad but I know people in their 50's in debt and become disabled and it is hard and often very hard. It seems if one is still in debt at age 50 it may still be the case at age 65.

Dave makes a good living giving his advice and I wish I had been more attentive. At least I took the advice and clipped the smallest credit card balance off and got rid of them all over time.

Retirement and debt is not going to go well together per my math. Owning ones on home can be expensive if it is all paid for if the appliances, roof and heat and air system come up for replacement at the same time.

Health insurance is over the top for the self employed it seems today even in retirement. Often we have to make choices that are hard.

For you that are young get your head around what Dave has to say today. You do not have to do it his way but his points are valid.

I have two neighbors 65 that are dealing with cancer for a few years now. The one with good health insurance seems to be ahead in his fight. Four years ago I changed my Way Of Eating when the doctor wanted me to start taking a $2700 a month drug (Enbrel injections for pain management) and dodged that expense and now my health markers are better than 30 years ago.

Thankful we handle many of our home and auto repairs but if that ability were to cease it would complicate things.

I do not have things figured out but I am starting to understand expenses are hard to cut as fast as the drop in income at retirement time and you can't change the past finance mistakes after the fact as was posted above.

Thanks for all the good ideas being shared.

 

[buckeyefarmer]

First thing anyone needs to do is stop buying lottery tickets.

 

[4570Man]

First thing anyone needs to do is stop buying lottery tickets.

I’ve never bought one in my life and I refer to them as a self imposed tax on the ignorant.

 

[buckeyefarmer]

Back to health ins, my Dr bills the last 3 yrs have been over 100k. I work to have insurance, and because i can"t retire yet...

 

[ultrarunner]

You're getting at the nature (conflict) of health care in a capitalistic system ("the market").

When it comes to letting "the market" control health care, it isn't like shopping for a pair of shoes. Normal "market forces" don't apply.

It's been long established that most contracts aren't valid when one party enters them under duress. (i.e. when your life is threatened, when you have no options...but to die, I guess...).

Needing health care is pretty close to the definition of duress.


So....

There is routine wellness health, emergency care, elective surgery and some that fall in-between..

For many years the way it worked was catastrophic insurance... not so much anymore.

The Affordable Health Care Act changed a lot of things... especially for those with catastrophic plans... they basically went away...

Also costs for many groups escalated... those that are young and those with basic plans were hit the hardest.

The one group that did well are those that were uninsurable... the law forced carriers to write policies.

Growing up we did not have insurance for about 10 years and later... Mom was out walking and attacked by a dog... she was 62 and was uninsurable until Medicare kicked in due to the attack...

Employer offered Health Care was offered as an incentive to attract, retain and keep the maintain a viable workforce...

A lot of insurers under the Affordable Health Care Act have pulled out of certain regions and scaled back in others...

This begs the question if Healthcare is a license to print money... why are so many hospitals closing?

 

[BrokeFarmerJohn]

No hospitals have ever closed here that I know of, just the opposite, lots of hospitals are being built around Columbus Ohio. Wexner just built “The James” it’s a cancer hospital.

Wexner is a tycoon that built most of New Albany (wealthiest part of Columbus), he has his own or at least his name on: “The Ohio State Wexner medical center network of hospitals”. Ohio State University Medical Center | Ohio State Wexner Medical Center 95 locations in that network.

He’s the type of dude that has all of the trees ripped out along his driveway because they were too big when he was entertaining. I was told by someone there, they replanted trees, he didn’t like them so they pulled the trees up again and had to truck in a 3rd set of trees that were just the right size for his party. (All the trees that were along the long driveway and trees closer to the house), these weren’t baby trees, they were large (not fully grown) trees.

His house is guarded by the sheriffs department, they have 1-2 officers posted at his fortress of a residence at all times. They run a background and screen EVERYONE going in for work etc.

Columbus has been good to that guy.

Anyway, I see only expanding/ remodeling of hospitals, no closing.

In opposition of that statement Columbus is growing, it’s a tech city and is booming right now. now all of our roads are being congested by the massive amount of cars on the road these days, it’s bad now. I can see them adding another few lanes to our outer belt or building a outer outer belt before long.

 

[ultrarunner]

The SF Bay Area is growing with record low unemployment... but Hospitals/ER Rooms continue to close or require emergency grants to stay open...

The two big players continue to expand but often away from the urban core...

It could simply be a only in California thing?

Here is another one getting a lot of coverage...

Pending closure of Alta Bates a “perfect storm” for Richmond’s expectant mothers – Richmond Confidential

 

[Streetcar]

No hospitals have ever closed here that I know of, just the opposite, lots of hospitals are being built around Columbus Ohio. Wexner just built 典he James it痴 a cancer hospital.

Wexner is a tycoon that built most of New Albany (wealthiest part of Columbus), he has his own or at least his name on: 典he Ohio State Wexner medical center network of hospitals? Ohio State University Medical Center | Ohio State Wexner Medical Center 95 locations in that network.

He痴 the type of dude that has all of the trees ripped out along his driveway because they were too big when he was entertaining. I was told by someone there, they replanted trees, he didn稚 like them so they pulled the trees up again and had to truck in a 3rd set of trees that were just the right size for his party. (All the trees that were along the long driveway and trees closer to the house), these weren稚 baby trees, they were large (not fully grown) trees.

His house is guarded by the sheriffs department, they have 1-2 officers posted at his fortress of a residence at all times. They run a background and screen EVERYONE going in for work etc.

Columbus has been good to that guy.

Anyway, I see only expanding/ remodeling of hospitals, no closing.

In opposition of that statement Columbus is growing, it痴 a tech city and is booming right now. now all of our roads are being congested by the massive amount of cars on the road these days, it痴 bad now. I can see them adding another few lanes to our outer belt or building a outer outer belt before long.

Wexner just has naming rights for a state hospital.
Columbus is also big government employer, with state moving many employees to capital.
Ohio has many rural hospitals closing.
Many LEO work security as a side job