Buying Advice Prices seem up for both new and used...

[prof fate]

I remember in college driving into the city (early 80s) and from a country area where the college was and the car exhaust fumes - terrible. I'd get a headache from it.

The old kubota (L174..early 70s) created a lot of diesel exhaust fumes. It is what it is. However, the girlfriend's horse barn is where I kept it and she wasn't keen on the fumes, especially in the winter with the barn more closed up and the longer warm up time needed.

The kioti has no odor - nor do our IC diesel buses. I got a new one last year (DEF, DPF, etc) and had a 2006 bluebird before that (no def/dpf) and there is a definite difference in smell/odor. New buses have NONE. However, we have had issues with them - mainly because many do slow speed stop/start and idling between runs, the dpf is taking a harder hit, regen is needed more, etc. The buses that take trips (for sports games, etc) don't have nearly the issues the 'local' buses do. Like my bus- 50 miles in a typical day, may hit 45mph once, between all the runs there are nearly 100 stops, plus of course traffic, stop signs, etc. Stop and go driving? Yep. And in the winter they'll idle to warm up for 30 minutes a day in the AM, and 15-20 in the PM - can't put kids on a cold bus, or really scrape ice off those windshileds too well either.

I was told on my tractor keep revs above 1800rpm and let it warm up/get it to op temp and there should be no issues. Kioti dealer said they've never had ANY dpf issues on any unit.

A neighbor has his dady's old kioti, dad got a new one. Never a repair in 20 years.
Then this - Kioti tractor workhorses | Farm Online

I'm a kioti fan. Nothing wrong with Kubota, but they cost more for less (small things, but seems like nickle and diming to leave off handles, etc, add ons are rather overpriced IMO), Deere is just as "bad".

High used prices are great - if you're selling. As a buyer..it sucks! LOL

 

[ultrarunner]

Get a horse then.

I remember folks saying that about cars too - first electronic ignitions, then catalytic converters and evaporative emmissions, etc.

HOWEVER, I remember adjusting points twice a year, changing plugs annually, wires every other year. I remember exhaust fumes (never liked them personally).

Cars today are a lot like refrigerators - change oil and drive 100,000 miles and do nothing else besides maybe brakes and tires.

My DPF equipped kioti runs clean - very clean. Kioti redesigned their engines to meet tier 4 - the benefit is they are SOO clean running their testing shows them lasting 20,000 hours! Oil change is 400 hour intervals. Yes, 400. Ye Olden days it was what, 50 or maybe 100?

My tractor regened at 34, 72 and 141 hours so far. Just keep on working, takes 10 minutes. Filter said to be good for 3000 hours, costs $300.

And there are NO fumes - which this time of year is handy as it needs to warm up in the barn a bit - no stink AT ALL, no smell at all. None.

Well there are the early adopters and the ones who choose not to be Guinee pigs...

I have presided on a fair number of California Lemon Law Cases with new models that did not have all the bugs worked out... implementing new technology always comes with a learning curve...

As for adjusting points... just about everything I own has points... it is very simple and I have never had points leave me Stranded in Death Valley but an Electronic Ignition did... it was dead... nothing could be done.

I always check my points before any Model A Tour... no tools required to check...

I can see your point about indoor operation... but most indoor operated equipment here is Propane or Electric... I'm curious to know if a Tier IV final meets indoor air quality to operate indoors?

I think a lot of what they want to do could be done with a BX23... many underestimate due to size.

So far the search for a L3800 has not turned up anything but hard to predict... patience has served me well in the past.

 

[mcfarmall]

My prediction is that prices will peak in the fall of 2020...right when I'm ready to buy mine.

 

[rScotty]

I think a lot of what they want to do could be done with a BX23... many underestimate due to size.

So far the search for a L3800 has not turned up anything but hard to predict... patience has served me well in the past.

It might help to look at it not as a BX23 vs an L3800, but as a BX23 versus a shovel and wheelbarrow.
rScotty

 

[jeff9366]

My DPF equipped kioti runs clean - very clean. Kioti redesigned their engines to meet tier 4 - the benefit is they are SOO clean running their testing shows them lasting 20,000 hours! Oil change is 400 hour intervals. Yes, 400. Ye Olden days it was what, 50 or maybe 100?

My tractor regened at 34, 72 and 141 hours so far. Just keep on working, takes 10 minutes. Filter said to be good for 3000 hours, costs $300.

And there are NO fumes - which this time of year is handy as it needs to warm up in the barn a bit - no stink AT ALL, no smell at all. None.

I am of this school too. I have owned Tier III tractors, now have a Tier IV tractor.

Regen has been a non-issue for me.

My three cylinder Kubota regenerates every 60 engine hours. Half the time its regenerates as I am operating, the other half I regenerate while parked in the driveway. Regeneration takes sixteen minutes.

60 hours X 60 minutes = 3,600 minutes. Regeneration = 16 minutes.

16 / 3,600 = .0044 = 4/10 of 1 percent of operation is regeneration time if regeneration takes place in driveway.

Cost of diesel during regeneration in driveway = $1.00

 

[Industrial Toys]

Reading what many say, I realize that they simply don't appreciate that their dollar is slowly becoming worthless, thanks to their Government.

 

[ultrarunner]

Maybe I am missing something...

I have several restored and working tractors from the 1940's and early 1950's... Ford, Deere and Farmall…

No qalms saying I expect these tractors will last forever... and still perform and capable as when new.

Same with my antique cars...

The kicker is I have seen a lot of high end mostly foreign cars that are so complicated emission wise they are often scrapped when emission problems crop up 10 to 15 years out... parts no longer available, manufacturer out of business or sold... and it only gets worse...

Then there is the VW, Audi debacle over Diesel... owners were most satisfied but the vehicles did not meet the standards required... the parts for the affected vehicles are removed from the shelf as they cars are not supposed to be driven... even have issues with some of my gas powered equipment... manufactures decide something is obsolete because it no longer meets current standards...

We have all seen things like this... often called forced retirement.

So... I wonder just how many 25 to 60 hp tier IV final diesel tractors will still be viable when they are 60+ years old like my 1953 Jubilee?

Remember... it might take a decade of more for most of us to put on the same hours that someone in business does in 6 months... and if bought new... any problems are the Manufacturers problem... once the warranty is over... it lands squarely on the owner...

Seen this with new cars... leasing is huge again here... I work with many that have not Owned a car in years... they simply don't want to own out of warranty and willing to pay a premium.

 

[jeff9366]

Keep in mind that off-road diesel engine manufacturers have the international Tier V emission standards in hand and are designing engines to meet the stricter Tier V standards. I have no idea if implementation dates have been set.

I would not expect the lower emission standards for <19 kW engines to survive Tier V implementation but have no "inside" information.

 

[Industrial Toys]

The little minion has less and less say in anything anymore. If we banded together, boycoted John Deere or Exon, we could bring the corporations to their knees, but we are so controlled and manipulated, that, that isn't even a remote possibility.

 

[ultrarunner]

This is especially true for business use... entire fleets had to be retired by law in California or be retrofitted for continued use...

So far the non business user still has greater options..

What I find interesting is Government users are mostly exempt from emission conformance... this if often a problem when the State is selling surplus vehicles and equipment with hardware removed... especially with retired police cruisers.