Ether

[4570Man]

Duct tape is certainly useful for some jobs. What are you going to do to temporarily seal off something so it doesn’t get full of dirt? What are you going to use keep a protective paper in place? If you break a window and a rainstorm is coming and no tarp is available what are you going to do? If you cut your finger what are you going to do? I find electric tape wrapped around a piece of paper towel is a far superior bandage to a commercial produced bandage. Anyone who has never done a less than ideal repair probably hasn’t done very much.

 

[quicksandfarmer]

Duct tape is certainly useful for some jobs. What are you going to do to temporarily seal off something so it doesn’t get full of dirt? What are you going to use keep a protective paper in place? If you break a window and a rainstorm is coming and no tarp is available what are you going to do? If you cut your finger what are you going to do? I find electric tape wrapped around a piece of paper towel is a far superior bandage to a commercial produced bandage. Anyone who has never done a less than ideal repair probably hasn’t done very much.

If you rip your pants what are you going to do?

 

[Tx Jim]

Theory? LOL
That is how starting fluid works, it ignites before the diesel is injected and preheats the combustion chamber (remember that we are talking about a very fast process here). .

Please explain how starting fluid ignites in a cold diesel engine before piston reaches TDC or very near TDC. Some diesel inj pumps that I've been associated with are timed at 14ｰ before TDC. Yes I realize starting fluid is more volatile than diesel hence the reason for resorting to it.
Thanks,Jim

 

[dannoGT]

Please explain how starting fluid ignites in a cold diesel engine before piston reaches TDC or very near TDC. Some diesel inj pumps that I've been associated with are timed at 14ｰ before TDC. Yes I realize starting fluid is more volatile than diesel hence the reason for resorting to it.
Thanks,Jim

This is just my theory on how this works and I would love to hear from some one with a degree in diesel engine design. If you are trying to start an old lawn mower or an old gasoline engine that has low compression to begin with and a spark plug to ignite the ether/gas mix then you are probably okay! But when you bring out that ether can with a diesel you are playing Russian roulette , literally . Here is what happened . Very very cold morning -40 used glow plugs till the little element was going to melt. Started cranking over and it started to give that puff of smoke like it was going to start! But it wouldn't! The kid was sent to the shop to get the can of ether! Meanwhile the air filter was removed . By this time the battery is getting low so its not cranking over as fast. While the engine is turning over the kid is instructed to spray the ether into the air intake. The diesel makes a couple of puffs like it's going to start and then BANG. During the engine teardown it is discovered that there are 2 bent connecting rods, here is my theory. This is a compression ignition engine (no spark plug) the compression ratio is much higher. There was already plenty of diesel fuel in the cylinder. Because engine had not been firing. As piston was going down on intake with intake valve open it got a big shot of ether (piston closest to air intake) as piston now coming up on compression it squeezed that load of ether and unburnt diesel fuel at a compression ratio at least 4 times higher than that old lawnmower! Some where before TDC the compression touched off the fuel mix of ether and diesel and because the starter motor is holding the flywheel the engine doesn't run backwards it just bends the connecting rods!

Signed

The kid

 

[seemynewname]

Please explain how starting fluid ignites in a cold diesel engine before piston reaches TDC or very near TDC. Some diesel inj pumps that I've been associated with are timed at 14ｰ before TDC. Yes I realize starting fluid is more volatile than diesel hence the reason for resorting to it.
Thanks,Jim

I'll give you a quote from KBi, who makes starting systems for diesels - "Engine Starting Fluid is comprised mainly of Diethyl Ether. Ether in a gaseous state has an
auto ignition temperature of 3600F (1820C). On a cold soaked engine, when the air and
ether vapor mixture is introduced into the engine combustion chamber, ignition will take
place as the heat of compression reaches 3600F (1820C). This flame front from the burning
ether vapor produces enough heat to compensate for the compression heat lost through the
cold metal mass of the engine. As the piston nears the top of the compression stroke, if the
heat generated by compression plus the added heat from the burning ether is sufficiently
above the auto ignition temperature (7250F, 3850C), of diesel fuel, the cylinders will "Fire"
and a successful cold start is achieved"

NOTE - Somehow my cut and paste added a '0' to the numbers, so we aren't really trying to melt the cylinders here, it just sounds like it. lol

So, to simplify, a diesel is a heat ignition engine, and the goal is to get the fuel to the right temp at the right time, ether can throw off that timing, but can also be a necessity to get enough heat to ignite the diesel

 

[Tx Jim]

dannoGT
Diesel engines with operating glow plugs should never be subjected to having starting fluid(ether) sprayed into them PERIOD!

 

[seemynewname]

dannoGT
Diesel engines with operating glow plugs should never be subjected to having starting fluid(ether) sprayed into them PERIOD!

Absolutely not - in the worse case scenario, a heavy dose of ether can crack pistons, bend rods, bust valves and do all kinds of nasty things when it ignites prematurely.

 

[fried1765]

CADplans
There has to be more to the story of the pistons exit'ing through the side of the block, than those few drops of diesel. Much more, IMO. just sayin.....

AGREED !!!

 

[LouNY]

Over the years I've been "privileged" to be involved in the tear down and repair of a few ether babies, the most commonly found issue has been broken rings and or tuliped valves.

 

[FarmHack]

Thanks for the link, beenthere. My uncle told me that connector on my 3010 was for ether shots in really cold weather, but I didn't realize the cans were still available. I used your link to order a can, along with a couple of JD22 front wheel bolts for the 3010 and a couple of plastic rollers for the deck of my ZTR.