Home Security Camera question

[CMV]

If this were my project, what I would do is figure out what DVR and cameras I would buy TODAY. Even if you're not actually buying for another year or so - worst case same thing is cheaper a year from now. But consider what whole system looks like at end of the addition, where the DVR will sit, how many cameras & about where each would be mounted. Then run cables to support that as you go.

Even if I thought I wanted 4 cameras today, I'd get an 8 channel DVR. Can still run with just 4, but later you decide 6 would be better, there's room to add. Or if you thought you wanted 8, get 16 channel, etc. Mine is 4 channel with 4 cameras. If I could add a 5th I would, but since I can't, just put them where most useful. When I bought it, I thought 4 was plenty (and probably is), but didn't consider it since i didn't know and later wished I had bought and 8 channel system with 4 cameras so I could add one here or there in future.

 

[CMV]

Oh....really put some thought into camera placement. Don't do like I did Here are examples of my novice thinking when I installed it so you can learn from my mistakes:

I thought this would be a good angle and coverage for package thieves or people messing with cars in driveway. Pretty much good coverage of front side of house.



Seemed like a good idea, but reality is camera is too far away to be useful. Obviously phone screen shot and on a bigger monitor the picture can be more detailed, but would I really get a good shot of a package thief at front door? What if someone was messing with my truck - would that picture be useful?

Next bright idea was only 1 camera to cover whole back yard (small, i'm on a 1/4 acre lot). But I wanted that gap in neigbor's fences since when our house was burglarized that's the path they took to/from the house so wanted to make sure it was covered. So to get the area coverage, I mounted camera high - it's right above 2nd story windows for height reference & yard slopes down away from it.



Best case I would have a shot of top of someone's head - my description to police would be whether or not they are bald Not knowing what I was doing, seemed like a good idea. But obviously it may as well not even be there for what it shows and the amount of detail it can capture from there. And it's way too high/far for the IR night illumination to do much of anything - so night shots are even more useless. Not the camera's or system's fault - just poor installation of an otherwise ok product.

 

[TwiceStroked]

CW, Vari-Focal 3-12 mm, I use both Fixed & Vari.
8-15' above grade.
I used speco b4 and found cheap fleabay to function just as good.
Think like a thief for placement.

 

[TwiceStroked]

They also make ir illuminators to help with Ur night vision. Just don't mt them facing the camera.
I am not by any means an expert on CCTV, just my experiences.
Mike

 

[buckeyefarmer]

My brother put in ir floodlights that make his night view look like daytime.

 

[CMV]

My brother put in ir floodlights that make his night view look like daytime.

That would work really well!

 

[plowhog]

Do you just stick them out of the wall and that's that? Or are their boxes, like junction our outlet boxes used for electrical that can be used?

Eddie, I am mid-way through building my house. I hired a low voltage specialist to do all the internet and camera cabling. I am competent to do all of that myself but glad I hired a professional. To answer your question, anything at a camera location, interior or exterior, has a 2-gang box fastened to a stud. With 4-6 feet of cable hanging out but rolled up and stuffed into the box. That gives you a future option to mount the camera to the box, or put a cover (like a switchplate cover) that has an RJ45 (internet) connector. I would pull CAT6.

You should also consider bringing all of the CAT6 wiring to a central location, regardless of where the cameras are. That central location also needs power, ideally a home run to the panel if you can do that. This is where your electronic equipment will be, either the host DVR, internet switch, etc. Be sure to plan (possibly) for a computer and large monitor in that location as well, if that is appropriate. You will want a single location to go to, view the cameras, download any video you want onto a thumb drive, etc. If your main "media" location is in the future part of your build, you can run a single CAT6 from this location to the new construction to tie it all together.

Regarding POE, that is really nice because you don't need to run a power wire to the camera. I would use the industrial grade internet switches such as from Netgear. Some models offer "managed" switches and offer POE right out of the switch with no separate injector required. Not having to do a POE injector for each camera is much more efficient. (See link.) btw there are other model switches with more POE ports and more power if you need that.

Netgear ProSafe Plus Switch 8 port Gigabit Ethernet Switch with 4 port PoE - Office Depot

Regarding outdoor cameras, dome cameras are attractive but most DIY people don't have the skill to maximize their utility. "Bullet" cameras are pretty simple to install. Anything that you have that is exterior will require you to consider two cameras per location. For example, if you want to watch the front of your house a driveway, one camera could do that. But it probably won't be able to capture a license plate since it has a very wide field of view. If you had one camera for "panoramic view" of the front, and a second camera (with a different lens) that had a real tight focus on your driveway, then you could "watch everything" and capture license plates. Add in night vision, wide dynamic range, varifocal, etc. and there is an overwhelming amount of choices in cameras for a DIY guy like you or me. When you get ready to buy cameras, consult an on-line utility program that will calculate the focal need of the lens. You can measure the width and distance you want in the field of view, and the utility program will tell you what focal lens to get on the camera you purchase. There are also varifocal lenses that are adjustable.

Also, if appropriate, you might consider an external box and CAT6 for a future wireless broadcast signal. On the outside of the house, you could put an internet access point, or nanostation, or whatever and then you could have wireless internet throughout your property. Yes you probably won't be web surfing on your tractor, but when I'm working in the shop I am frequently using a wireless connect to look up part numbers for filters, or research things.

Good luck with your project-- your idea to pull every wire that you can think of NOW is a very good idea ....

 

[plowhog]

work with the Cat6 cables that I will have installed.

One more thing. I would buy the proper crimp tool and install your own ends on the CAT6 cable. It's a little tedious at first but you will quickly get the hang of it.

Test EVERY cable after you make it. A cheap tester that works great is this one:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/DataSha...r-with-Case-and-Patch-Cords-PA70025/205972192

btw, in your media room beware to never make a CAT6 internet cable that is shorter than 3 feet. I know from miserable results that if you make short patch cables just to get from one device to another that is sitting right on top of it, do NOT make a cable shorter than 3 feet. They don't work right, and generate confusing and random problems that are hard to pin down. I know this from experience.

 

[chesternator]

I bought cheap wireless cameras for grandmas front porch. Great in daylight (color) fuzzy B&W at night. Grandma didn't like them. If someone sees I've got cameras they'll come in to get ME . She has a point. Depends why you want video. For online remember that a hacker can see what you'll be seeing.

Why would they be more tempted to come in because you have cameras? I think it's quite the opposite effect. Just having cameras is a deterrent even if they dont work. Most criminals are looking for something easy and dont want to get caught. If you have cameras I would be concerned that you are protecting yourself and may have something more deadly on the other side of the door. You want them to be visible so that maybe they move along and you dont even need the footage.

 

[Masempine]

She is 94. Her worry was that once they were on video, their only choice was to break in and destroy the video equipment or the person who had seen their faces.

 

[TractorNH]

And plan to put cameras down low. Up on the soffit of a 2 story house is too high to have anything more than a general overveiw. If you want to catch the faces of people or license plates on cars you will need the cameras mounted close to what you want to capture. You walk up on my porch and you have a camera staring at you before you even realize it's there. You want to be sure they are getting useful images or the whole project is pointless.

 

[Code54]

The MP of the camera will not determine the "nightvison" ability of the camera. The lux rating will be what you want to pay attention to get a feel for how the camera will handle low light. Consumer grade CCTV use IR illumination to get "nightvison", basically just a frequency of light we can't see with out naked eye but the camera can. Most consumer grade camera will give color images in the daylight and a so so image at night. Generally speaking, the better the camera - better the low light ability.
As for cable, I know you said you don't want to go wireless but anymore that is where the entire industry is heading. I do some CCTV work for my job and get to attend one of the top professional shows for CCTV and 99% of it is wireless. IF done correctly and with good quality gear the wireless systems will preform as well as any wired system. I used to design and install commercial CCTV systems and in those times everything was BNC W/Coax - now I wont consider that as it really is outdated and limits what you can do without additional gear.
If you go wireless you can encrypt the signal, run on different frequencies to avoid interference, and honesty jamming is really not an issue in the real word. If the person "visiting" your residence is up to speed on jamming a system, has all the eqpt, and is going to that much work you need to be very concerned! The nice thing about wireless is not only can you run on standard WiFi you can also have a back up 4G (soon to be 5G) network and cloud storage so even if they burn down the house the images the CCTV system caught are safely stored on a remote server. Just some food for thought.....

 

[buckeyefarmer]

So Im lying in bed, can bring up my 3mp camera in the barn, using my phone.
This camera is connected to my network using IP over AC power, running on an extension cord.
Yep, havent ran power to my barn, my barn network comes to my house on an orange power extension cord. I wouldnt worry too much about 5e or cat 6.

There are no lights on in the barn, just the camera IR.

 

[buckeyefarmer]

Couple more phone snapshots of remote cameras, that i can bring up on my phone. These 2 will notify my phone if there is motion detection.

Again, no lights on, just the camera IR.

 

[TractorGuy]

FYI anything over 2mp doesn't give good nightvision results.

I don't understand this either. Maybe my 5/4MP cameras have better night vision because they are wireless?

 

[chesternator]

I don't understand this either. Maybe my 5/4MP cameras have better night vision because they are wireless?

No not because they are wireless. Just need to know that a better, more expensive or high MP camera does not necessarily mean it has better night vision also. It may or may not be better than another cheaper low MP camera You have to specifically check this on the camera if night vision is important to you. Not sure if that's a game cam you have but game cams i expect would certainly have more focus on nighttime capabilities given their particular purpose.

 

[chesternator]

The MP of the camera will not determine the "nightvison" ability of the camera. The lux rating will be what you want to pay attention to get a feel for how the camera will handle low light. Consumer grade CCTV use IR illumination to get "nightvison", basically just a frequency of light we can't see with out naked eye but the camera can. Most consumer grade camera will give color images in the daylight and a so so image at night. Generally speaking, the better the camera - better the low light ability.
As for cable, I know you said you don't want to go wireless but anymore that is where the entire industry is heading. I do some CCTV work for my job and get to attend one of the top professional shows for CCTV and 99% of it is wireless. IF done correctly and with good quality gear the wireless systems will preform as well as any wired system. I used to design and install commercial CCTV systems and in those times everything was BNC W/Coax - now I wont consider that as it really is outdated and limits what you can do without additional gear.
If you go wireless you can encrypt the signal, run on different frequencies to avoid interference, and honesty jamming is really not an issue in the real word. If the person "visiting" your residence is up to speed on jamming a system, has all the eqpt, and is going to that much work you need to be very concerned! The nice thing about wireless is not only can you run on standard WiFi you can also have a back up 4G (soon to be 5G) network and cloud storage so even if they burn down the house the images the CCTV system caught are safely stored on a remote server. Just some food for thought.....

Agree that someone who can jam the wireless camera signal is way too determined to be stopped by any camera or even any lock. This is a non issue in regard to comparison. A tad off topic but no matter how good your lock is it's about the weakest point if determined. Just bust the jam or break a window.

If you go wireless I would not go cheap. I used to have a wireless backup camera in my car and driving around I would sometimes pick up others cameras on my screen in my truck. This type of wireless though is just a connection between the camera and the screen which can easily be picked up. This is not the same as Wifi but I would still be cautious about buying cheap

 

[EddieWalker]

Back in my Marine Corps days, I was an Embassy Marine, and every type of door lock had a number rating. 20 to 30 was the most common. The highest rating that we had on a lock was 45. These numbers where the amount of time in seconds that it would delay somebody from getting through them. At that time, there was no such thing as a lock that would delay somebody for a full minute!!!

I have two concerns with wireless. Batteries and quality of picture for similar priced cameras. I've also found that everything wireless seems to have a very limited lifespan with issues almost daily of one kind or another. Cell phones and home WiFi are a good examples. While this might change, I'm comfortable committing to a hard wired system at this time.

 

[hawkeye08]

If I were building our house now, I would run some conduit runs for new cable. I put in homerun Cat3 for phone and network to all the rooms, but now it is not easy to replace Cat3 with Cat 5/6.. I have a few cobbled cable runs (office and family room) to wired switches, but the rest of the house has to use wireless. Think also about some conduit run to where you might want to put wireless access points to get whole house coverage.

 

[EddieWalker]

I really don't want to run conduit, but realize that your advice is solid. There is one corner of my house that once I finish this room off, will be impossible to get to from the attic. AC ducts have it blocked and the only way to get to that corner will require sheetrock to be removed. One inch conduit wouldn't be difficult to install at this time.