Loader Massey 2600hd series

[sawtooth]

Anyone have or had one of these? Just curious how well they are made and if they are reliable.

 

[JWR]

Anyone have or had one of these? Just curious how well they are made and if they are reliable.

Yes sir. If I interpret your "2600hd series" words correctly, my MF 2660HD low profile is one of those. I have mountains of info regarding mine. The short version is that it was the worst horror story of a lemon I ever heard of for the first 3 years of ownership ... until I got the bugs out. Since that time it has been reliable, a real workhorse, very dependable and in truth I love the machine now. Hard to know where to start or how much you want to hear. I will throw in a few pictures and you tell me if I have the right tractor and what aspects you would like to hear about. I'm very glad to elaborate, just don't want to overload you/our readers.

I bought mine new in early 2011 in So. MD. The 'low profile' in these tractors is not much of a departure from the standard models. Just lower tires, minor sheet metal changes, exhaust routing down low, etc. I operate often on pretty steep ground on my farm in WV (and it is 330 miles from my home so i only use it once a month for a few days.) That circumstance drastically complicates service work from the selling dealer, another dealer, etc. etc. I was over a barrel almost all the time with no way to change that.

Well made? I would say they are VERY well made in the sense of being heavy, strong. Robust engines, good flexibility on tread widths, nice low c.g., lots of power, outstanding Perkins engine that cannot be beat in my book. Good 3pt and good FEL (with a few asterisks...) Good hydraulics with exception of some loader valves.

Reliable? Since 2014 YES. Prior to that, disastrously NO. Essentially faultless the last 5 years. I have 400 hours on it now (which is of course very low hours because of my geographic circumstance.)

First pict is just before I took delivery.



Second picture is on the farm in typical configuration as used today.



Third pict is just after hauling to the farm, still new, ready to use.

 

[sawtooth]

Thank you for your response. Yes I would love to hear more details regarding exact issues etc. I’ve heard both good and bad as I believe the Brazilian made tractors did have some issues. BUT these are the last of the heavy build smaller ag tractors which is why I have interest in them. The engine alone is a rare bird as it peaks in power around 1800-2000 rpms which is well below some of its competitors. I also like the fact that it’s a fairly simple machine while lacking the newer emissions garbage that normally just causes additional long term issues.

So I found a second owner 2010 MF 2660HD MWFD cab with FEL that I agreed to buy yesterday. It only has 900hours and I will pick it up next week but was a little worried about potential issues. On the plus side it’s owned by private farmer and he sounds like a gentlemen and very honest about its history. Apparently, he purchased it 3 years ago and is selling all his cattle thus no longer needs it. He purchased it from a guy that sold it fairly cheap as it had some issues. The big issue was the brakes as there was some sort of recall but the original owner didn’t get it back to a dealer in time to fall under warranty. So the current owner had new heavy duty service brakes installed plus corrected a couple other more minor issues. All in all he spent about 4K as he said he likes his equipment right and functioning as it should. He said everything works great now including the brakes and there are no oil leaks. His local Massey dealer supposedly made all the repairs. He paid 26k for it knowing that it needed some service. We’ve agreed to 30k which if it’s what he says seems to be a good price as compared to what I’m seeing online. Anyway would be interested to know more about what issues you had.

By the way nice looking Massey and glad it’s working well for you now.

Thank you.

 

[JWR]

Thanks Sawtooth. I'll try to organize this to avoid pages and pages but it will be lengthy trying to cover more details and exact issues.

Keep in mind I bought mine 330 miles from the farm and then the poor devil dealer 25 miles from the farm ended up doing all the repairs. They agreed to do it of course, reimbursed by Massey. Still, that is NOT a good environment; not the way to go. My fault. I just never dreamed there would be so many problems!

* Yours being a cab model I have zero experience with a cab and there may be several differences. Mine is open deck. I have a friend in WV with a 2660HD cab model 2660 with a lot more hours than mine. He was in line ahead of me at the same dealer to have several things done. References to "Tom" below are to him. He is NOT on TBN.
* The price for a 2010 cab model with 900 hrs at $30K is not too bad if the major issues have been corrected. Depending on what comes with it of course. In fact it is worth more now than it was new if all the issues have been fixed. Mine had so many infant mortality problems out of the Brazil factory undetected by the local dealer it was a serious lemon.
* Brakes: As delivered you could not hold it on a 40% slope using a 1500lb bush hog. You could NOT prevent the wheels from turning with 180Lbs pressure on the brake pedals. NOT SAFE on a WV hillside ! This was a hideous product decision on the part of Agco, intentionally putting out tractors with marginal brakes to see if anyone would notice and then only have to fix those who complained. They never did anything as decent as a recall !! I can send pictures later if desired, but they were delivered with "4 disk" brakes. You can tell by looking at the notches on the bugle housings on each side of the rear axle. Four notches about the size to fit your pinky finger means 4 disks per side. Tom was in the dealer's shop with his 2660 getting the 5th disks installed on each side right ahead of me. After the 5th disks were installed you CAN now hold it on a very steep slope limited only by traction. They squeak some but I don't care about that.
* FEL: I have the DL250. The DL 260 is somewhat better ( a little more capacity, a little bigger frame) but the 250 is OK. I twisted mine trying to pry out a locust tree stump with full power in 4WD and all the lift it would put out. Simple case of abuse. I admit it. I also untwisted it the same way in reverse. No FEL loaders by any manufacturer are specified for torque. They should be at least from the standpoint of buying decisions.
* Loader Control Valve: The NIMCO loader valve was problematic on these tractors. I knew of 4 with the same problem and there were no doubt more. The dump function would NOT lift the front of the tractor. It was slow to respond and sometimes would not respond at all. The dealer replaced the loader valve with brand new one listed at over $1000 and the problem remained identical to the original. Agco parts depot was brain-dead and never did to my knowledge purge their system of the bad valves. My Wv dealer had 2 other customers complaining of the same issue and I sat on one on his lot that showed the same problem. Counting mine, that's 4 I know of. When Massey seemed incapable of fixing it, I called NIMCO and the guy said "Yeah, we know we let a few bad ones out of the building." He sent me a kit (changing the cap and spacers on one of the spools) which I installed and fixed it myself.
* Fuel Starvation: As delivered you could not climb a 40% slope with half a tank of fuel. The engine would die and then you had no power and did not have adequate brakes to begin with so that was sporty. Come to find out, the fuel pickup was fixed up toward the front of the tank somewhere and went dry on a hillside climb. The new fuel pickup was installed using a T and check valves to ensure fuel pickup even on a slope. Same time as they put decent brakes on the thing.
* Brake equalizers: I recommend that you defeat the left/right brake equalizer plumbing. That neat feature was put in by lawyers who do not like us having left/right wheel brakes for fear we might hurt ourselves. Your better dealers will already have done that.
* More later: Next volume will cover clutches, shuttle shift, 3pt hitch issues, etc.

Please do not forget: push came to shove and in the long run, YES it took 3 years (half due to my oddball geographic situation), but AGCO stood behind this machine 100%. They extended my 2yr warrantee a full year. They paid all the repair costs that they should have. I cannot fault AGCO for the end result. I sure DO fault them for the infant mortality, lack of quality control out of the factory and pee poor decisions like putting out stuff with bad brakes and fuel starvation designs.

 

[JWR]

The Rest of the Story: clutches, shuttle shift, 3pt hitch issues,etc. There are several minor things (instrument module, parking brake, etc.) I am not going to describe here.

The clutch and shuttle shift problems all happened in the first 87 hrs of use and would have been in the first month of ownership if I had been using the tractor at a "full time farmer's" rate. I was only there to use it a few days a month.

Clutch: This has to be some kind of freak circumstance and one you would NOT be worrying about on the one you are buying. Mine was delivered with a clutch pedal lever interfered with by the console somehow -- physically preventing the clutch from being fully engaged much of the time. I never noticed -- who would ever imagine that ? I smelled the clutch burning several times and tried to track it down but could not. At 87 hrs the clutch was bad enough one could no longer use the tractor. It was replaced by the dealer. Thank the lord I was not trying to make a living with this tractor. During the first 3 yrs of ownership it spend MANY MONTHS at the dealer. There was never a sensible explanation as to how this can happen much less how it really did. Needless to say the chassis had to be broken in half for the clutch replacement. The clutch has been fine ever since.

Shuttle Shift: The shuttle shift failed twice. The first time a large diameter fender washer fell on my left foot and the tractor was only movable by tricking it in several ways. The second time it failed the shuttle lever was going beyond normal positions to the point of interfering with the steering wheel and again the tractor became immovable. The dealer came and picked it up. I never got a sensible explanation other than that a split pin had come loose and that the shuttle shift linkage was (obviously) impaired. One problem is that ordinary backyard mechanics have little chance of getting enough of the console off and apart to ever diagnose this kind of ailment. Surely a cab would be worse in that regard. (??)
Note: mine is a 4speed with 2 ranges. The 6 speed with 2 ranges or anyway the 12 speed overall would be very nice because the low and high range are NOT synchromesh and much of my work is near the edge of low range high gear versus high range low gear.

Three Point Lift These tractors are proven by decades of use of the same general design chassis -- solid as a rock, very dependable, heavy as H, almost all good. One factor that few of the current dealers know has to do with Draft Control and how it really works on these machines. At one point I had a 2700lb articulated boom cutter mounted on the back and after sitting a long time and then trying to use it again the 3pt lift was dead -- would not move anything at all. The dealers 'best mechanic' made a house call and witnessed the problem and it stumped him. The regional AGCO rep was puzzled and never did get into it enough to figure it out. A senior technical advice & parts guy at the dealer gave me a hint which enabled me to solve the problem and explain it. Draft control on these machines is SUPPOSED to be out of the picture when the Draft control lever is all the way up. The manual says that. The dealer instructions said that. However -- it ain't really so !! The Draft control lever only desensitizes Draft control. If you hang something heavy enough on the top link it will invoke Draft control no matter where the lever is. Once that happens the "normal" position control no longer works as expected. Disconnecting the "big spring" linkage behind the top link anchor beam put the 3pt lift back in operation -- problem solved. This led to ordering the little known Draft Control Bypass Kit from my original dealer. That kit puts a solid link behind the 3pt top link right into the rear axle and removes any input to the Draft Control mechanism. Unless you plow with it you will never care.

Hydraulic Comments: You have 3 pumps on these tractors. Power steering, Accessory/main pump, and 3pt lift pump. I believe your 2660HD cab will have the same small lever mine does in the heel kicking position under the seat. This is the combiner valve that allows you to combine both the flow from the main pump and the flow from the 3pt lift, thus providing higher flow for rapid loader work, hydraulic motor applications, etc. When that is in use, the 3pt lift is disabled. Another note -- these tractors like nearly all sold these days are open center hydraulics meaning that any control in use in the circuit locks out all the rest. I call it "one track mind hydraulics" which it is. It can become complicated in a given application to understand what is due to gravity and what is due to hydraulic pressure but the truth is only one thing at a time is forced by hydraulic pressure from the main pump.

Overall, I am extremely pleased with this tractor NOW after the bugs are out but it was terrible until they got fixed.

OK, I'll quit for now. Hope this helps with your new 2660 Cab model. Let us know how you like it, what you run into for questions, etc. I'm interested to hear which loader you got (250 versus 260) and whether you have any loader valve hiccups.

Since 2011 I have been unable to connect with hardly any other 2650/60/70/80 users on Tractor By Net. Some have speculated that users of this size machine and larger just do not have time or interest to talk with each other on-line or else they have hired mechanics and do not get greasy themselves.

Good luck !

 

[sawtooth]

Great info JWR and thanks for taking the time putting this together. I’m was a little hesitant about getting the tractor due to all these issues but after speaking with the gentlemen that owns it feel like a lot of the issues are already resolved to like yours. He sounds very open and honest about the history of the tractor (you never know though) and I like the fact that it has limited emissions crap on it, heavy built old school design, Perkins engine and simple shuttle tranny. My conscious says to buy a Kubota for reliability but my heart wants the Massey. My family and neighbors all ran Fords and Massey’s years ago so it’s kinda in my blood I guess. Hopefully most all the major things are good and if so I’ll be happy. I’ll keep you posted once I pick it up later this month.

Thanks again for the assistance.

 

[JWR]

Your are welcome. I would guess from your description of the seller that he probably has the bugs out of it and you will have a really good tractor(good that he took care of the brakes! To me that was a major issue.) Unless he too operated on steep ground a lot, he might not have had the fuel starvation/tank pickup fixed ?

Unrelated, OBTW: A good friend and neighbor of ours here in So. MD grew up in Danville, VA which seems to be near you. He is remodeling his old homeplace down there & spends a lot of his retirement effort there.

 

[cglaser104]

Great info JWR and thanks for taking the time putting this together. I’m was a little hesitant about getting the tractor due to all these issues but after speaking with the gentlemen that owns it feel like a lot of the issues are already resolved to like yours. He sounds very open and honest about the history of the tractor (you never know though) and I like the fact that it has limited emissions crap on it, heavy built old school design, Perkins engine and simple shuttle tranny. My conscious says to buy a Kubota for reliability but my heart wants the Massey. My family and neighbors all ran Fords and Massey’s years ago so it’s kinda in my blood I guess. Hopefully most all the major things are good and if so I’ll be happy. I’ll keep you posted once I pick it up later this month.

Thanks again for the assistance.

Not for nothing, but I've seen various issues from the folks in Orange and the folks in Green as well. I've been around Kubota's, Kioti's, Deere, New Holland's, etc. Just depends on the day of the week it seems as to what you'll encounter.

 

[sawtooth]

Not for nothing, but I've seen various issues from the folks in Orange and the folks in Green as well. I've been around Kubota's, Kioti's, Deere, New Holland's, etc. Just depends on the day of the week it seems as to what you'll encounter.

Agreed. All manufactures are trying to find cheaper places and ways to build tractors especially for the small to midsize machines which is creating more issues I think. Also I see Massey opened a new China factory a few years ago. I wonder if quality has improved or gotten worse? Anyone heard anything yet?

 

[sawtooth]

Interesting video. Good information here regarding machine design.

Massey Ferguson HD Series Competitive Comparison - YouTube

 

[JWR]

Interesting video. Good information here regarding machine design.

Massey Ferguson HD Series Competitive Comparison - YouTube

At 8:25 in the You Tube video stop/pause it and look closely at the rear axle they picture. That tractor has a "four disk brake system" which is inferior to the "five disk" system that can be added. Count the notches in the picture. That is a 4 disk tractor. It just astounds me that they would manufacture and sell (an otherwise good, solid, heavy) tractor with marginal brakes when they knew about the problem and had parts to make it right. I wonder when during the manufacture and sale of these tractors that they found out about the issue? Did they know it before any were ever sold ? Did they make a decision to save a few bucks intentionally planning to add the 5th disk only when a customer complained? We will never know !

 

[sawtooth]

Very true. And just think, the problem is actually worse on the cab tractors due to the added weight. It’s like they didn’t even test them. Very strange. I sure hope I like it though. Going to pick up my new trailer on the 26th then headed to pick up Massey. Guy is holding it for me till I have the new trailer to get it. 30k is a lot of money so I keep doubting myself about buying it but I just feel good about the guy selling it as everything he’s said has been spot on and supports what you’ve told me. I decided earlier this week just going with my gut feeling and moving forward with the purchase.

 

[JWR]

Speaking of trailers ... I had my 2660 wheels mounted such that the inner edges of the front and rear tires matched while the outer edges of the rear tires were 8ft. apart. That works really well for my applications, often on steep terrain and more bush hog work than anything else. It also meant that my old trailer at that time (early 2011) with fenders above the deck would not haul the 2660. I tried it just short distance with the front of the tractor as far forward as possible and concluded it was just the wrong trailer. I traded the trailer in at Wengers in PA for a new Pequea model 1018 deck-over that is 8' wide at the deck top. The actual deck length is 21' with 4' of that being a gentle sloped beavertail. Works very well. The axles are good for a 12,000lb GVWR but I got 6-lug wheels with overall rating of 10,000lbs to avoid some nuisance licensing issues. If the load capacity became an issue I could swap for the higher rated tires/wheels without changing anything else. The 2660 rear wheels can be mounted outward a good bit further but I'm comfortable on 40 to 50% slopes with the 8 foot outer edge rear spacing. If you go wider, it can become an issue for hauling, etc.

I'm very happy with my Pequea (good solid trailer, protected wiring, nice rubrails all around, toolbox area, heavy drop-leg jack, good brakes, etc.) I do not haul often.

With your cab model, probably wanting the loader and some rear implement on when you do haul, you probably want a larger trailer with more weight rating.
This picture is from last year when I bought a FEL mounted hydraulic motor rotary cutter for clearing overhanging limbs, brush, etc.

 

[JWR]

I may have failed to mention that mine is a low-profile 2660. The differences in the chassis are minor and most of the "lowering" is just tires. My rear tires are 18.3x26. No doubt yours will be 30" tires and you'll have one more step up from the ground. That might influence you to go wider than 8' outer edges of the rear tires for steep ground stability which might have trailer width implications too.

What sort of trailer do you have on order if I may be nosy ?

 

[sawtooth]

It’s a PJ tag along F8 model. 20’ long deck with 4’ dovetail. Full width deck at 102”. Has fold down flat ramps so I can place bush hog etc on them if needed. I will mostly tow my Ford 3910’s and my Massey 461 with FEL but wanted to buy something that can move the MF 2660 also when needed.

What truck are you pulling your 2660 with? Is that a 1/2 ton F150? Sure looks like it but can’t believe it. I’m sitting here sweeting about using my 2018 2500 Duramax. Lol. The cab tractor version (with ballast and FEL) weighs in right at 10k plus the trailer of 3900lbs so I should be right at 14k total weight. Even yours without a cab though is a heavy built machine. It’s gotta be pushing 8-9k with ballast and FEL right?

 

[JWR]

That is a very nice trailer and should be totally adequate for 2660 hauling when you need to do it. I like the fold over feature with the ramps allowing you to place things on top of them. I have had to rig some strange looking things to haul my 2660 with the 7ft bush hog on it due to my ramps. You also have a nice 6" more width to your deck. All good.

I was using a Ford F-250 with the V-10 engine and 5sp std transmission when I bought the 2660 here in So.Md. I borrowed a bigger trailer and towed it 330 miles incl. the mountains of I-68, etc. to the farm in central WV. The F-250 weighed 6600lbs and was 4WD with HD springs. That was before buying the newer Pequea deckover trailer that I have now. I use a 1000lb 4-in-1 bucket and a 1460lb 7ft Bush hog so if all that is on the trailer I'm at about 13,000 lbs total towed load. That was OK but was hairy in the much steeper mountains in Randolph/Tucker Co WV where I took it once -- without the bucket. The main towing chore was taking the 2660 to the dealer back in the "bad old days" of early ownership.

Now, it has been 5 years since I had any reason to take the 2660 to a dealer for work on it. And I traded trucks. The picture I posted in post #13 was a rare 1 time case when I took the bare tractor (no bucket and no Bush Hog) to a dealer 22 miles from the farm to have a Lane Shark FEL mounted cutter installed. Yes, that is my 2015 F-150 on that trip. There are some surprising stats between the F-250 V-10 and the F-150 turbocharged V6. The F-150 is automatic of course where the V-10 was a stick. The V6 has the same torque figures (420 ft-lb) but 65 HP more than the older 2000 model V-10. Power is not the issue. The main difference I felt was the F-150 being so much lighter -- about 1000lb lighter with an all aluminum body and a lighter duty truck anyway than the old F-250. The springs and 4WD and towing pkg are all OK but mainly because of the lightweight of the F-150 I would not be using it in the mountains or challenging towing with the 2660. I have used the F-150 to haul a B2150 Kubota to/from another place in the higher mountains in WV and various things like attachments (the 7ft hog by itself, a 7.5ft flail mower, etc.) But not the larger tractor. My towing these days is not frequent.