GM pickup truck plant announcement yesterday

   / GM pickup truck plant announcement yesterday #131  
Nope. I said one vehicle. You're swapping trailers, borrowing stuff from work, towing dangerous & illegal. Kinda doesn't fit the "one-for-all" requirement. I'm sure that Volvo is a real jewel on long trips tho. :cool:

Guess I'll just keep my F150. :)

Be honest: the bed of your F150 wont carry what my trailers will carry. The F150 is the same as a Sprinter 1500 (sprinter 219 in Euro nomenclature) the softer springs to get a comfortable ride when empty, make it useless for heavy towing. Then with a pickup truck the offroad capability is detrimental to the towing stability (high COG, soft rollbars, long suspension stroke and high aspect ratio tires)

Your F150 is no less a compromise on all the points you mentioned, than mine. ;)
 
   / GM pickup truck plant announcement yesterday #132  
Be honest: the bed of your F150 wont carry what my trailers will carry. The F150 is the same as a Sprinter 1500 (sprinter 219 in Euro nomenclature) the softer springs to get a comfortable ride when empty, make it useless for heavy towing. Then with a pickup truck the offroad capability is detrimental to the towing stability (high COG, soft rollbars, long suspension stroke and high aspect ratio tires)

Your F150 is no less a compromise on all the points you mentioned, than mine. ;)

Not a compromise at all. It meets all my points quite well, better than any other single vehicle, that's why I bought it. Please specifically point out where my truck is a compromise to my required task?

I don't need to tow heavy (my requirements are <8K, as stated earlier), nor do I need max payload. My off-road requirements are only to get into my remote camp, which it does quite well. Not into rock climbing or desert racing. Tho if I had lots of play money, a Raptor would certainly finds it's way into my driveway....:D

The challenge is, and was, find a better SINGLE vehicle that meets all my previously posted requirements. And I think you now realize, there isn't one.

So, you can hate on light trucks all you want, but the fact remains, they are a great choice for many, for just as many reasons.
 
   / GM pickup truck plant announcement yesterday #133  
Sorry for being a bit behind - was off in S Dakota for a week.

This looks a lot like one to me

View attachment 607912

Subaru stopped selling the wagon in the States a few years ago; they only sell the jacked-up versions like the Outback.

I am a fan of crossovers in general. I don't need the height, weight, or horsepower of a 4x4 SUV for my family car. I am not off-roading with my family car, so the station wagon/extended hatchback style is fine with me. On the other hand, all wheel drive is safer and easier to control in the winter for the wife and kids. My Subaru Forester meets my family's needs much better than a large SUV or two wheel drive station wagon of yesteryear would. As well, while it is not as economical to drive as a civic or a corolla, I like to have it when the snow is flying.

To me a car that can give me all wheel drive without pretending to be a full size off road vehicle is a good fit north of the snow belt. The small decrease in fuel economy in the summer, is worth it due to the better safety in the winter.

I still think AWD is overrated for most winter driving. I drove a RWD BMW wagon with Blizzaks on all 4 wheels for several years, including to ski in VT and driving around in Quebec in the winter. The only time it might help is if you have a lot of snow drifts on the road. (That said, my wife has a Subaru Impreza and I have a V70 AWD as well as the Sierra.)


I took my driving test in my dad's 1970 Dodge Coronet wagon. (I learned how to drive around 12 years old, driving a Jeep CJ-2 around my friend's farm.)

The Jetta Sport Wagon, now labeled Golf Sport Wagon is a station wagon just like the Subaru. View attachment 608504. Like the good old saying goes. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and talks like a duck, it逞エ a duck. I agree no one wants to drive a station wagon. It just sounds bad and brings back memories of wood paneled wagons of the 70逞エ and 80逞エ. And yes the Golf wagon is available lifted with AWD.

I had a SportWagen TDI until VW bought it back. It was a great car. They seem to be pushing the jacked up AWD model there too over the original. At least you can still buy either model.
 
   / GM pickup truck plant announcement yesterday #134  
Not a compromise at all. It meets all my points quite well, better than any other single vehicle, that's why I bought it. Please specifically point out where my truck is a compromise to my required task?

It meets all your points -better- than any other -single- vehicle. There you are: one vehicle cannot excel at all multitude of wishes on your list which by definition makes yours a compromise.

A chassis-cab with dropsides, or enclosed box, or a dumpbox, is a superior cargo or commodity transporter. A minivan is a superior family transporter. A large sedan offers superior high speed stability and comfort. A compact diesel car offers superior fuel economy on commuter traffic with just one occupant. A swamp buggy offers superior offroad capability. A large van offers superior tool storage for a field service technician. Point for point, your pickup doesnt excel at any of these things, yet it offers the best possible compromise between all thats on your list, either as a requirement or just as a wish.

And i am not "hating on light pickup trucks" i am (apparently) making people uneasy when posing questions which they have allways taken for granted: whether it is cost-effective to commute 35.000km a year with a 20mpg pickup truck, while you need the pickup trucks added ability to go a bit off the road, tow and haul more than a compact commuter car could, for only 3000km a year.

I am telling nobody what to drive, but im just asking: are you sure a pickup truck is the best compromise between all aforementioned requirements of a personal vehicle, when it is used for commuting 90% of the time, when the versatility of a pickup truck offers no added value ? Or do you just keep buying pickup trucks because your countrymen has been doing it for three generations without asking questions ?

I am asking that because whether fossil fuel run out, or after the Trump presidency you get a swing to the far left and greenies take charge and try to tax you out of your pickup trucks, somewhere in the next decade the scale is going to tip and you guys will have to rethink vehicle necessity vs. Nice-to-haves.... call it a doomsday prophecy if you will, but thats my prediction for the next decade. ;)
 
   / GM pickup truck plant announcement yesterday #135  
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^And Al Gore said the earth would be burned up by 2000. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Renze seems to have an unnatural interest in convincing us that we should be driving vehicles like Europeans. Why?
 
   / GM pickup truck plant announcement yesterday #136  
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^And Al Gore said the earth would be burned up by 2000. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Gore is an idiot who made millions by instilling fear on people by showing them apocalyptic prospects...

Unfortunately, looking at the Democratic party today, the Al Gores are gaining traction and i would not be surprised that they pour their **** upon the country by law... they will use the fact that some European countries have already banned the sale of fossil fueled cars from 2030 onwards, as moral blackmail to push America to "take its responsibility" and "pay their fair share" in saving the world from what Al Gore is yapping about...

In reality, the earth was warmer than nowadays, in what we call the Medieval warm period. During that era, vineyards grew in Northern England close to Scotland. In the 17th century there was a small ice age, it had winters so cold that the river Thames froze solid in winter.

In the Cold war, all belated hippies were protesting nuclear missiles, only a dramatic event like the collapse of the USSR could get people off that theme. 40 years later, climate change has taken that role in public life, and only a dramatic event like another small ice age could prove to the general public (whom are brainwashed with this outdated and disproven scientific theory since the 80s) that climate change is a natural process and Al Gore is the high priest of a retarded nature religion who was willing to offer all the nations wealth to prevent imaginary apocalyptic disaster.

Unfortunately, more and more people are giving in to the fearmongers and so it has become a political issue, so we will have to sit this climate hysteria out. 🤔
 
   / GM pickup truck plant announcement yesterday #137  
It meets all your points -better- than any other -single- vehicle. There you are: one vehicle cannot excel at all multitude of wishes on your list which by definition makes yours a compromise.

A chassis-cab with dropsides, or enclosed box, or a dumpbox, is a superior cargo or commodity transporter. A minivan is a superior family transporter. A large sedan offers superior high speed stability and comfort. A compact diesel car offers superior fuel economy on commuter traffic with just one occupant. A swamp buggy offers superior offroad capability. A large van offers superior tool storage for a field service technician. Point for point, your pickup doesnt excel at any of these things, yet it offers the best possible compromise between all thats on your list, either as a requirement or just as a wish.

And i am not "hating on light pickup trucks" i am (apparently) making people uneasy when posing questions which they have allways taken for granted: whether it is cost-effective to commute 35.000km a year with a 20mpg pickup truck, while you need the pickup trucks added ability to go a bit off the road, tow and haul more than a compact commuter car could, for only 3000km a year.

I am telling nobody what to drive, but im just asking: are you sure a pickup truck is the best compromise between all aforementioned requirements of a personal vehicle, when it is used for commuting 90% of the time, when the versatility of a pickup truck offers no added value ? Or do you just keep buying pickup trucks because your countrymen has been doing it for three generations without asking questions ?

I am asking that because whether fossil fuel run out, or after the Trump presidency you get a swing to the far left and greenies take charge and try to tax you out of your pickup trucks, somewhere in the next decade the scale is going to tip and you guys will have to rethink vehicle necessity vs. Nice-to-haves.... call it a doomsday prophecy if you will, but thats my prediction for the next decade. ;)
If a 16MPG pickup truck costs $2,000 a year in fuel to drive over a 35MPG compact car, that means that you have to be able to find a compact car that you can pay for, insure, keep up and register for less than $2,000 a year, or you're losing money over just driving the truck.

Aaron Z
 
   / GM pickup truck plant announcement yesterday #138  
It meets all your points -better- than any other -single- vehicle. There you are: one vehicle cannot excel at all multitude of wishes on your list which by definition makes yours a compromise.

Why can one vehicle not excel at a multitude of things? Not sure where/how you've come up with this theory, but it's nonsense.

A chassis-cab with dropsides, or enclosed box, or a dumpbox, is a superior cargo or commodity transporter.

Superior for me how? I haul nothing that would benefit from any of these. Again, this is MY situation, not yours, or some perceived generic data set.[/QUOTE]

A minivan is a superior family transporter.

Again, for five large adults, how is a minivan superior? Have you ever sat in the back seat of a new crewcab F150? It will dwarf the best minivan in leg room, head room, and shoulder room. I drove an Odyssey for a couple years. For babies/young kids it works well. For large adult bodies, my F150 owns it handily.

A large sedan offers superior high speed stability and comfort.

Maybe in Germany on the autobahn, but the highest speed limit anywhere near me is 70mph, a speed at which my truck is more smooth & quiet than most sedans, so nope.

A compact diesel car offers superior fuel economy on commuter traffic with just one occupant.

OK, now you've actually made a valid point.....for someone, just not me. I rarely endure commuter traffic, and rarely travel solo. Irrelevance applies here.

A swamp buggy offers superior offroad capability.

Well, no, not getting into my camp, which is all I need to do. Too tall, would certainly not play nice with all the trees. Might be fun, tho.

A large van offers superior tool storage for a field service technician.

I'm not a field service technician, and only need to carry a small toolbox on occasion. More irrelevance for me.

Point for point, your pickup doesnt excel at any of these things, yet it offers the best possible compromise between all thats on your list, either as a requirement or just as a wish.

So, clearly, point for point, my truck does indeed EXCEL at MOST of the requirements I need to do, better than even purpose-built vehicles. Crazy, huh?


And i am not "hating on light pickup trucks" i am (apparently) making people uneasy when posing questions which they have allways taken for granted: whether it is cost-effective to commute 35.000km a year with a 20mpg pickup truck, while you need the pickup trucks added ability to go a bit off the road, tow and haul more than a compact commuter car could, for only 3000km a year.

No, it's your arrogance assuming you know better what some else could or should be driving, as if they put no thought into what they need. Don't assume to think you know everything about everyone else's needs. As I've clearly pointed out in my specific case, you haven't a clue.

I am telling nobody what to drive, but im just asking: are you sure a pickup truck is the best compromise between all aforementioned requirements of a personal vehicle, when it is used for commuting 90% of the time, when the versatility of a pickup truck offers no added value ? Or do you just keep buying pickup trucks because your countrymen has been doing it for three generations without asking questions ?

Why would you ask that, when no one asked your opinion? Comment on your own situation, stop trying to be an expert on everyone else's.

I am asking that because whether fossil fuel run out, or after the Trump presidency you get a swing to the far left and greenies take charge and try to tax you out of your pickup trucks, somewhere in the next decade the scale is going to tip and you guys will have to rethink vehicle necessity vs. Nice-to-haves.... call it a doomsday prophecy if you will, but thats my prediction for the next decade. ;)

Yes, and you know how long this type of BS has been thrown around? We should have been driving space ships on vertical highways by now. Next decade? Keep your day job, you'll never make it as a prophet. ;)
 
   / GM pickup truck plant announcement yesterday #139  
No, it's your arrogance assuming you know better what some else could or should be driving, as if they put no thought into what they need. Don't assume to think you know everything about everyone else's needs. As I've clearly pointed out in my specific case, you haven't a clue.

No, its you relating my general comments in a wider discussion on vehicle design, onto your personal choices. You may call that arrogance if that makes you comfortable.

Why would you ask that, when no one asked your opinion? Comment on your own situation, stop trying to be an expert on everyone else's.

Excuse me ? You specifically asked me to point out where your vehicle was a compromise. You seem to have a different conception of the word compromise: From a designers viewpoint, (which i happen to be) every design is a compromise, a tradeoff between the various design requirements: it doesnt mean that the vehicle is compromised, as in: hampered.

By definition, a multipurpose vehicle is a compromise. When your F150 ticks all the boxes of your wishlist, it doesnt mean your vehicle isnt a compromise between the multitude of tasks, it just means that its designers made the right compromises. ;)
 
   / GM pickup truck plant announcement yesterday #140  
If a 16MPG pickup truck costs $2,000 a year in fuel to drive over a 35MPG compact car, that means that you have to be able to find a compact car that you can pay for, insure, keep up and register for less than $2,000 a year, or you're losing money over just driving the truck.

Aaron Z

Actually i was putting forward the idea of towing a small trailer the size and load capacity of a half ton pickup behind that compact car, which is the preferred way in Europe for private transportation requirements. I explained that with European weight based road tax and high excise on fuel, driving a pickup as a private transportation means, would be a huge financial burden on an average family income. My 20 year old Volvo is as far as i am willing to go, in the trade-off between economy per driven km, versus what i can tow. For me it is the same: the money i save, going from 50mpg at 1.35 euro per liter and the 150 euro per month i pay in road tax with my Volvo, to what my colleague drives: a VW Polo 1.6 TDI that gets 60mpg and costs 100 euro per month in tax, i could not cover the cost of an old Sprinter with dropsides to cover my occasional hauling needs.

But even with American fuel prices, it could still save you quite some money if you could attach that half ton pickup bed with a ball coupler to a more fuel efficient commuter vehicle, whenever you need more space than just the trunk... but apparently the actual point gets lost in the noise when people take it on themselves 🤔
 

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