Placebo effect...really?

[2LaneCruzer]

I injured my left shoulder maybe 40 years ago, and for the last couple of months it has been so sore that I cannot sleep, or even lay on my left side for any length of time. Yesterday, Sharn Jean was going through her jewelry box, gathering up several of her old watches that I had promised to take in for new batteries, and when she gave me the watches, she slipped an old "Bio-Ray" bracelet on my left wrist. I recalled her buying it years ago, and apparently she ran on to it looking for her old watches. I didn't pay much attention, but left it on all day. Last night, when I went to bed, I was able to not only lay on my left side, but go to sleep without pain.

Now I am trained in science, have a BS degree, in biology and chemistry; worked in industrial research for 16 years, practiced law for about 25 or so, and don't consider myself very subject to suggestion. I believe the reduction in pain was not only real, but significant; much more so than a couple of Ibuprofens. all of the information I have seen so far, say that the effects of the bracelet are the result of the placebo effect (via scientific studies no less). In my case, the effect has been not only significant, but almost immediate...but now I am totally confused, but being a pragmatic individual, I'll take the results and the good night's sleep.

Any comments welcome!

 

[MossRoad]

Yeah, the mind is an easy thing to manipulate, even you manipulating your own. I find if I'm in serous pain, loud music makes it go away. Stop the music, and it comes back. Well, that doesn't make any sense, does it? The injury is still the same before and after I turn up the music, so logic says the pain should still be there during the loud music. But a distracted mind doesn't focus on the pain.

In other words, you're not nuts...

 

[jmc]

Recently there was a clinical study on a pill to increase women's libido.

38% reported increased libido.

The control group received a placebo.

35% of the placebo group reported increased libido.

 

[MossRoad]

Both groups took it with alcohol....

 

[CobyRupert]

Now I am trained in science, have a BS degree, in biology and chemistry; worked in industrial research for 16 years, practiced law for about 25 or so, and don't consider myself very subject to suggestion. I believe the reduction in pain was not only real, but significant; much more so than a couple of Ibuprofens. all of the information I have seen so far, say that the effects of the bracelet are the result of the placebo effect (via scientific studies no less). In my case, the effect has been not only significant, but almost immediate...but now I am totally confused, but being a pragmatic individual, I'll take the results and the good night's sleep.

Any comments welcome!

Similar to you, I have a couple B.S. degrees in science.
I have no idea if Bio-Ray bracelets work, don't work, work sometimes, etc... but I'm fascinated by stuff like this. The stuff science hasn't proven or explained, yet the anecdotal evidence (might) be there. This would include things like water witching, maybe even ghosts, Bigfoot, etc...

I think the scientific method (in establishing what "facts" and "reality" is ) has its faults and limitations.

This may be a simplification, but it only accepts "facts" and says "this is how reality works" when things are repeatable and thus predictable. I believe there's still a lot of natural phenomena that is so rare, or we don't understand ALL the conditions that create it (and thus can't repeat it in a scientific study) that a lot of phenomena gets dismissed.

 

[Diggin It]

I'll guess you did something during the day different than previous days, or didn't do something you had done, probably without even realizing it. Or the weather was different somehow, more or less humid maybe. We've all heard about people being able to predict weather by their aches and pains after an injury or illness.

 

[/pine]

The placebo effect is really no different than hypnotic suggestions...

 

[EddieWalker]

The paint industry did a test on how much the name makes a difference in selling the paint. The took the exact same color and gave it a variety of names. Overall, the nicest sounding name outsold all the others regardless of price.

I've also read multiple stories about wine tasting where people where all given the exact same wine, but then lied to where each glass came from to see if they liked one better then the other based on location instead of taste. Other stores where about the price of the wine and if they felt the one that they where told cost the most was better then the lowest cost, even though every sample came from the same bottle.
In every case, the vast majority went with price and location. They even went into detail on why it was better!!!

My wife has two Masters Degrees, she has been a RN for over 30 years and she will have her PhD by the end of the year. Her PhD is in Palliative Care and the University is already working on her book and talking about speaking touring the country and maybe overseas. The power of the mind to make your body heal and is significant and there is a lot of data out there that has proven that if used, Palliative Care does not have to be a death sentence.

 

[Jstpssng]

Similar to you, I have a couple B.S. degrees in science.
I have no idea if Bio-Ray bracelets work, don't work, work sometimes, etc... but I'm fascinated by stuff like this. The stuff science hasn't proven or explained, yet the anecdotal evidence (might) be there. This would include things like water witching, maybe even ghosts, Bigfoot, etc...

I think the scientific method (in establishing what "facts" and "reality" is ) has its faults and limitations.
This may be a simplification, but it only accepts "facts" and says "this is how reality works" when things are repeatable and thus predictable. I believe there's still a lot of natural phenomena that is so rare, or we don't understand ALL the conditions that create it (and thus can't repeat it in a scientific study) that a lot of phenomena gets dismissed.

I don't have the degrees, but was thinking the same thing. Often today's science is tomorrow's voodoo. Another thread recently touched base on water dowsing... there is absolutely no science behind it, and all sorts of skeptics (including me), yet just because I don't understand it doesn't mean that it can't happen.

 

[Industrial Toys]

I had bouts of rheumatoid arthritis I believe brought on by stress. An alternative medicine practitioner said to take Arnica Montana and Vitamine C. The Arnica in a homeopathic format. Basically they take a drop of the stuff and put it in a swimming pool worth of water and make sugar pills, they sell for a lot of money in a tiny little tube and tell you to take like, four, six times a day! So the tube is gone quite quickly. I try and find larger format packaging in bottles, but that seems to be discouraged. They also, have varying strengths. So what, two swimming pools worth of water? It's all supposed to be about the "memory" of the original ingrediant.

So, I really don't believe in any of this, and YET, it seems to work. If I believed in it, it would make more sense to me.

 

[orezok]

I have a story, but it's in the opposite direction. A number of years ago, my wife father went in for his annual physical. The found something and after a few additional tests, it was determined to be cancer. He had no pain and was just as active as before. My wife wanted to see him and planned a trip to the east coast. While in good spirits the evening before she arrived he stated "Liz is coming tomorrow isn't she?" He went to bed and died that night. He was a strong willed man and we believe that he didn't want my wife to see him as he was "dying". We believe that he willed himself to die.

 

[Industrial Toys]

It leaves those left behind numb, but I hope I go in similar fashion. A friends father dropped dead, going from the kitchen to the living room with a bowl of corn flakes. Probably heart attack, I don't remember. The dozens of trips to hospitals and specialists, all for naught in the end, doesn't appeal to me.

I wouldn't mind exploring all manner of alternative practices. But why do they are charge Lawyers rates?

 

[2LaneCruzer]

Similar to you, I have a couple B.S. degrees in science.
I have no idea if Bio-Ray bracelets work, don't work, work sometimes, etc... but I'm fascinated by stuff like this. The stuff science hasn't proven or explained, yet the anecdotal evidence (might) be there. This would include things like water witching, maybe even ghosts, Bigfoot, etc...

I think the scientific method (in establishing what "facts" and "reality" is ) has its faults and limitations.

This may be a simplification, but it only accepts "facts" and says "this is how reality works" when things are repeatable and thus predictable. I believe there's still a lot of natural phenomena that is so rare, or we don't understand ALL the conditions that create it (and thus can't repeat it in a scientific study) that a lot of phenomena gets dismissed.

I have the gift to "witch water". Although I have never had anyone dig a well, I can find manholes, water lines, sewer lines, underground electric lines, and overhead electric lines. I have used the green stick, and found it works, and I have the iron wire that works great. The effect is real.

 

[bcp]

My gift is more limited. I can find only overhead electric lines.



Bruce

 

[oosik]

I have my BS in biology. My Masters is in Environmental Science. I wish I could find somebody with one of those bracelets. There is something "wrong" with the cartridge & tendons in my left shoulder. At times it takes Hydrocodone to ease the pain - to H*LL with getting any sleep. I sure don't understand the bracelet but would be willing to try just about anything when my shoulder goes "south".

 

[bigtiller]

I worked with an old timer in the 70's that wore a thick copper band around his wrist to knock down the arthritis pain. It worked for him and he seldom took it off.

 

[jbrumberg]

Similar to you, I have a couple B.S. degrees in science.
I have no idea if Bio-Ray bracelets work, don't work, work sometimes, etc... but I'm fascinated by stuff like this. The stuff science hasn't proven or explained, yet the anecdotal evidence (might) be there. This would include things like water witching, maybe even ghosts, Bigfoot, etc...

I think the scientific method (in establishing what "facts" and "reality" is ) has its faults and limitations.

This may be a simplification, but it only accepts "facts" and says "this is how reality works" when things are repeatable and thus predictable. I believe there's still a lot of natural phenomena that is so rare, or we don't understand ALL the conditions that create it (and thus can't repeat it in a scientific study) that a lot of phenomena gets dismissed.

I have a couple of degrees in Psychology and spent +30 years in the field. The mind is a powerful organ; more powerful than can be readily explained. Personally I believe in the placebo effect; there is/was a lot of "decent" research related to the placebo effect and there does appear to be a correlation between belief in treatment and the treatment's effectiveness. That also applies to "talk" therapies. The more we understand the mind and cognitive functioning the more we find out what we do not know. I saw/experienced stuff that could not be explained by our current understanding of physical science.

 

[MossRoad]

I've had very good success with physical therapy for my back, legs and shoulder several times over the years.

 

[Diggin It]

A lot of people are convinced I have a degree in BS.

 

[jbrumberg]

PT worked for me as well; chiropractic, homeopathic treatment and acupuncture worked also. When I got sick I utilized both homeopathic and medical treatment. As it turned out the specialists and the homeopathic practitioners were saying the same stuff; but saying it differently as it related to my illness and treatment remedies.

Diggin It- I resemble that remark.