2019 GC1725M - New Tractor - bolts falling out of subframe / transmission !!

[Nacademus]

If one is worried about spyware stay off the internet and disconnect your router /modem.... There are so many ways to track you the only way to eliminate tracking is not go online to start with, but if you're reading this you have already violated the cardinal rule already about maintaining your privacy.... You best defense if good fire wall, and DO NOT post anything you do not want made "public"... Privacy statements by "internet" companies are a joke....

Ever look up a article like maybe a "baby rattle" for new grand baby... Almost instantly there is 28 sites trying to sell you a baby rattle....

Dale

Talk about products around your cell phone... you will eventually see Google Ad Sense and Amazon adverts for those items or ones that are similar or similar sounding...


Geee, how could this be? lol

 

[Nacademus]

I spoke with Agco at length today, they were very helpful. It is indeed an issue with the bolts - they are the incorrect length. They should be 40mm thread length, whereas the ones on my tractor were 30mm thread length. This seems to be an isolated case, they haven't been able to see anything in their global workshop system thingy. However, they are investigating comprehensively, and are checking to see if other GC series tractors here in Australia have the same problem.

The 1725M is being picked up tomorrow, and taken back to the dealer. There are 10 bolts affected, that will need to be replaced with the longer bolts. For the 4 bolts that have stripped out a portion of the thread, AGCO suggested they could install slightly longer bolts - 45mm or 50mm threaded length, if there is enough thread to do so. If not, they will helicoil the damaged threads and then use the 40mm bolts.

They are very sorry this has happened, and are very motivated to fix the issue. Of course, I did send them links to the Youtube videos . . . which might have hastened their response? Anyway I'll be glad to have the tractor fixed. They are going to throw in a bit of merchandise and a grease gun etc, and I will be asking them for extended or lifetime warranty on the affected parts (those threaded castings).

AGCO asked me to take the Youtube videos down, which I understand, they could be quite damaging to potential sales. I'm inclined to keep the videos, and make the listing non-public - so that this forum still has access to the information but that also won't be too damaging to AGCO long term. Any advice on this? Another alternative is to make it a good news story, should AGCO get the tractor fixed up quickly and effectively, it could be a good story of a dealer/manufacturer supporting a client when things don't go as planned.

What do you guys think is best?

Do not helicoil. Ask that the threaded portion be replaced. Tell them taking the video down is strictly contingent on getting the items replaced. Set it as "unlisted" until they comply-but explain that to them. Its your right to inform us of these possible issues. It certainly could affect many more people.

 

[Nacademus]

Also, after watching your video, I am wondering where your valve stem caps went. Maybe they really did rush the pre-delivery.

 

[LouNY]

Yea, lets get her into a pixxing match with a huge multi-national corporation.
She is sure to win that one, when he!! freezes over.
Working with them is the only way she will get her tractor repaired.
Looking at the pulled threads the casting holes only lost about 2 threads,
if someone carefully goes in with a bottoming tap and cleans up the existing threads and adds a couple more threads,
remounts the plates with the longest bolts possible or as suggested longer bolts with a jam nut the tractor should be fine,
if AGCO would provide a life time warranty on the effected cases and the labor to replace it if it has problems 5-10 years down the road,
she would be in better shape then anyone else.

 

[Nacademus]

Yea, lets get her into a pixxing match with a huge multi-national corporation.
She is sure to win that one, when he!! freezes over.
Working with them is the only way she will get her tractor repaired.
Looking at the pulled threads the casting holes only lost about 2 threads,
if someone carefully goes in with a bottoming tap and cleans up the existing threads and adds a couple more threads,
remounts the plates with the longest bolts possible or as suggested longer bolts with a jam nut the tractor should be fine,
if AGCO would provide a life time warranty on the effected cases and the labor to replace it if it has problems 5-10 years down the road,
she would be in better shape then anyone else.

You want to add threads to a blind hole? They are certainly supposed to thread into the transmission casing-judging by the manual (see photo). The correct bolts were supposed to be 40mm but were 30mm. You can see maybe 2mm (more?) of bolt threads have eaten up the hole.

My guess is that with the wrong bolts there is only 2mm of bolt is showing after going through the plate to thread into the trans. Assuming then that the frame and plate is 28mm deep. There is only 10mm of thread in the casing.

So about twenty percent of the thread securing the frame to the tractor on that bolt is now gone-assume similar condition on the other bolts. You may not have the depth to add another 2mm of threads before boring through the case wall into the trans.

Unless the hole is made larger and tapped properly (which will weaken the boss), the only solution I would feel comfortable with is having the casing replaced and correct bolts installed. Engineers designed it this way for a reason. Also, as is, the lack of uniform compression along the entire thread path could may eventually cause a mushroom condition under stress and crack the end of the boss-that crack would sliver and shear down the side of the boss. This situation is completely avoidable if they just do the right thing.

I feel bad for this new owner. This really sucks and would bother me to death-these are not cheap investments. I want Massey to help them.

I am not saying NOT to work with them. Just don't be a victim because the company is so large and you are an ant. The video and its view count are the only real recourse she will have if they don't take care of her. Plus, I'm sure this is not the ONLY one affected and could become a noisy thing to sort out for them.

If the provide a warranty on the fix, great. But they won't and you know that. Years later, if this casing cracks, they will chalk it up with the user neglecting or abusing the equipment.

 

[cdaigle430]

-- And, absolutely what Lou said above: most likely the bolts weren't designed to reach the very bottom, just close. I'd be guessing the right bolt length would be closer to 40mm. (If I had more time, I'd pull one of my rear tires, remove one of those bolts and measure it...)

Lou-- I believe that's a factory thing, as the BH support frame that extends out to the rear is welded to the forward part of the frame that supports the FEL, at least on my 2310. I bet it's the same on the newer ones, too. That's a factory-installed option, which is why it's very difficult, if not impossible, to add a M-F BH later, and why I ordered mine with the BH.

Here's what mine looks like.. no extra charge for the dust! Note that there are those recessed bolts as well as some larger flush-mounted ones.
View attachment 624967

Allot of these tractors arrive in the US in kits from the factory. Once in the US they are assembled which up until that point it is an AGCO mess up if they did in fact put the wrong bolts in assembly. My question is is it an AGCO issue or a Stealership one? How do these subcompacts arrive at the stealership? Is it fully assembled or do they have to add the BH and Loader? if thats the case then again its the Stealership...I believe this is the same for Australia? I know that on my GC2410 the BH and Loader were manufactured in the USA while the tractor was in Japan.

**Update**I should have read the rest of the thread before I posted-glad your getting it taken care of by AGCO.

 

[lpakiz]

The best solution is a new gearbox and the correct length fasteners.
BUT, I have many times gone into a blind hole with a starter tap or plug tap to chase the existing threads. If probing the hole indicates that more threads can be tapped, I would use a bottoming tap, to ensure that the maximum amount of threads is made available to anchor the “stud”.
I would never OK a helicoil in this situation. And just using a bolt 10mm longer is not much of an improvement. Not a good metric guy, but 10 mm is about 3/8”, right?
This situation calls for maximum thread engagement, given the existing damage. Get threads to the bottom of the existing hole and use all of them.

 

[dalola]

Do not helicoil.

I would never OK a helicoil in this situation.

Why are you gents so afraid of a helical inserts? When done properly, it's stronger than the original thread. Many types of extreme duty machines are designed this way at high stress areas.

 

[lpakiz]

You gave a key hint when you said “....when done properly...”.
It’s going to be tough drilling and tapping in that area and keeping everything straight. Even if the gearbox is on the bench, it's still tough. Maybe in a Bridgeport. And you still have the issue of removing more metal from the sidewall of the hole, potentially weakening it.
All in all, easier to max the thread depth and use all of them.

 

[Nacademus]

Helicoils are almost never better. Time-Serts are a different system that I've used to fix spark plug holes and they would be OK, here. I would be happier with a replacement.