Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow.

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   / Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow. #101  
well, it lasted 2 minutes and 13 seconds anyway.. many people would want to use theirs for many hours, and not have to pay insane electric rates to do that.. electric motors can't compete with fossil fuel motors for cost per hour..

Think about the enviromental cost associated to produce the battery pack as well as the inherent cost to charge it. Right now, we get a substantial amount of the specialized minerals used to produce those packs from...China.
 
   / Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow.
  • Thread Starter
#102  
Are Electric Cars Bad for the Environment? - Going Zero Waste

5030 this article addresses some false myths out there about EV's that impact all of us.

One fact that jumped out at me about the 20% efficiency of gas engines and that peaks at 38% in some Toyota small engines.

I burnt 36 gallons of gas in the 2010 F-150 with the 5.4L engine to go look at, drive and get the 2016 Leaf home (3300 pounds). Let us call it 25% efficient. That meant I used 9 gallons to do the work and dumped 27 gallons into the air for us all to breath. Who would go pour 27 gallons of gas out on the ground?

EV's are more like 85% efficient with energy.

Consider the article and see if like me the ethics of ICE usage may become harder to breath.

I grew up on poor dirt farms and spent the summers in the tobacco patch to help keep a roof over our family's heads. Over the years I came to understand my redneck thoughts on energy usage was not in the best interest of my kids who are now 22.

EV's are not perfect but they may be better than wasting up to 80% of the gas that we buy. The ICE is on its way out over time so EV's need to be understood and made more safe for the environment.
 
   / Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow. #103  
All this talk reminds me of the Top Gear episode with the Nissan Leaf and a Peugeot Ion, making a day trip to the beach. They weren't impressed at all with either of the EVs, but then again, it is reality TV.

Series 17, episode 6
 
   / Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow. #104  
IMO, the myth as you call it resides mostly in your corner. Not mine and everyone is entitled to their opinion, you included but, let me pose this to you.. If EV's were the holy grail of the future, then why son't everyone have one? Ponder that for a while.

I made my comments and I'm done here. Not jousting with you over something that might become mainstream in 20 years but then may not ever.
 
   / Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow. #105  
My issue with EV's is simple. Has everything to do with where the electricity comes from and the pollution impact as well as the raw materials used to produce the batteries. Like corn liquor laced gasoline, it take more resources (energy) to produce a gallon of e-gas than the e-gas generates in energy. The same scenario applies to EV's.

People with plug in vehicles fail to take into account where the 'juice' originates at. It's a feel good' thing but in reality, the cost to the environment far outweighs the benefit, at least at this juncture in time.
I've read that this is myth, FUD originated by the oil industry and spread by the traditional auto industry that will lose much of the money they make today on after-sale maintenance. Renewable energy is already cheaper to produce than anything fueled by coal, that's a dying industry held together mostly by subsidies at this stage. And the subsidies for oil are huge including a few trillion spent in the Middle East in recent times. People with plug in vehicles don't fail to take this into account. That's naive propaganda to paint that short sighted attitude onto EV owners.

Petroleum and natural gas used to generate electricity for an EV results in greater efficiency than burning it in an IC engine, something like 2~3 times the miles per gallon of fuel consumed due to the more efficient conversion of btu's to forward motion comparing electric to an IC motor, and considering what is used for pipeline construction, trucking etc before the fuel reaches a gas station. And renewable energy - hydro, wind, solar - are increasing as a proportion of the world's total generating capacity. As renewable energy increases in importance some of the big generating plants planned for the future are being deferred or cancelled because demand for petroleum or coal based electricity is no longer climbing. I think it was Germany, Britain, and some Central American country that noted they had accomplished whole days running on nothing but renewable energy. That trend will continue.

Other countries with shorter travel distances are now considerably ahead of the US in adopting EV's. Keep an eye on Ford, they seem to be the leader in traditional US manufacturers developing EV strategy - while Tesla has already become a major passenger car supplier in the US. In summary the future is already here.
 
   / Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow. #107  
I've read that this is myth, FUD originated by the oil industry and spread by the traditional auto industry that will lose much of the money they make today on after-sale maintenance. Renewable energy is already cheaper to produce than anything fueled by coal, that's a dying industry held together mostly by subsidies at this stage. And the subsidies for oil are huge including a few trillion spent in the Middle East in recent times. People with plug in vehicles don't fail to take this into account. That's naive propaganda to paint that short sighted attitude onto EV owners.

Petroleum and natural gas used to generate electricity for an EV results in greater efficiency than burning it in an IC engine, something like 2~3 times the miles per gallon of fuel consumed due to the more efficient conversion of btu's to forward motion comparing electric to an IC motor, and considering what is used for pipeline construction, trucking etc before the fuel reaches a gas station. And renewable energy - hydro, wind, solar - are increasing as a proportion of the world's total generating capacity. As renewable energy increases in importance some of the big generating plants planned for the future are being deferred or cancelled because demand for petroleum or coal based electricity is no longer climbing. I think it was Germany, Britain, and some Central American country that noted they had accomplished whole days running on nothing but renewable energy. That trend will continue.

Other countries with shorter travel distances are now considerably ahead of the US in adopting EV's. Keep an eye on Ford, they seem to be the leader in traditional US manufacturers developing EV strategy - while Tesla has already become a major passenger car supplier in the US. In summary the future is already here.


This rosy opinion overview you posted, is quite biased in the way you wrote it. You have made unequal comparisons , omitted key facts and omitted many negatives of increased electric vehicle proliferation
 
   / Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow. #108  
This rosy opinion overview you posted, is quite biased in the way you wrote it. You have made unequal comparisons , omitted key facts and omitted many negatives of increased electric vehicle proliferation

And in doing so, I precisely match the tone and omissions of 5030's post.

Intentionally.

Glad to see you got it.
 
   / Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow. #109  
And in doing so, I precisely match the tone and omissions of 5030's post.

Intentionally.

Glad to see you got it.


Engineering Explained has a new vid that goes into whether a Tesla or ICE car is better for the environment

he owns a Tesla now,

Are Teslas Actually Better For The Environment? - YouTube

another vid

Are Electric Cars Worse For The Environment? Myth Busted - YouTube


A Couple Good Lines from this vid
so if you are from West Virginia and driving a Tesla P 100D You are not doing the Environment any favors at a break even of 17.8 years to equal an ICE vehicle
The main take away from this video is that electric cars certainly aren't any worse than gasoline powered cars
 
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   / Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow. #110  
The new GM Contract 3 of 4 plants scheduled to close will remain closed. One in Detroit will be repurposed to build electric trucks. They are already behind.

Just down the street is Rivian.

Specifications
* RANGE Up to 400+ miles
* ACCELERATION 0-60 in 3 seconds
* TOTAL POWER Up to 750 hp
* MAX GROUND CLEARANCE (off-road mode) 14.1 in
* WATER FORDING (off-road mode) 42.3 in
* TOWING CAPACITY 11,000 lbs
* BATTERY 105 / 135 / 180 kWh


From The Verge "Amazon CEO Jeff Bezos said the company has placed an order for 100,000 electric delivery vans from Michigan-based startup Rivian. The announcement came during an event on Thursday in Washington, DC where Bezos unveiled Amazon痴 sweeping plan to tackle climate change.

Bezos said he expects 100,000 Rivian vans to be on the road by 2024, according to USA Today reporter Nathan Bomey. The first vans will hit the road in 2021, with prototypes possibly arriving as soon as 2020
"


Unfortunately, that front end looks like it was designed by Massey Ferguson.
 
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