Kubota B3350 tractor regeneration problems

[RickB]

The Feds are a long ways away from pursuing off-roading end user emissions violators. They are not yet serious about the onroad violators.r

 

[LouNY]

Those algorithms are driven by the information the sensors send to the ECM are normally differential pressure across a DPF or DOC and it will also look at several temperatures.
If a filter has low or no differential pressure there would not be a command to perform the algorithm.
Most diesels will not attempt a regeneration without sensors values indicating a need for it, that system seems to try and do a passive regeneration just using high rpm to produce the required temperatures to burn the DPF and it is not getting results confirming completion. The electronic injected engines do so by adding fuel into the exhaust system, many by opening and engine injector during the exhaust stroke of the engine.

 

[SDT]

The Feds are a long ways away from pursuing off-roading end user emissions violators. They are not yet serious about the onroad violators.r

Agreed, Rick, but they are relentless.

 

[SDT]

Those algorithms are driven by the information the sensors send to the ECM are normally differential pressure across a DPF or DOC and it will also look at several temperatures.
If a filter has low or no differential pressure there would not be a command to perform the algorithm.
Most diesels will not attempt a regeneration without sensors values indicating a need for it, that system seems to try and do a passive regeneration just using high rpm to produce the required temperatures to burn the DPF and it is not getting results confirming completion. The electronic injected engines do so by adding fuel into the exhaust system, many by opening and engine injector during the exhaust stroke of the engine.

The regeneration system used on the B3350 and similar engines in some F series mowers is unlike that used in any other Kubota engine. It operates open loop. There is a device in the exhaust system called a reformer. The reformer is essentially a burner that injects fuel into the exhaust to raise the temperature during the regeneration process.

It is my understanding that the ECM bases regeneration timing upon operational history. Yes, there are temperature sensors in the DPF but I am unaware of any differential pressure sensors.

SDT

 

[SDT]

The regeneration system used on the B3350 and similar engines in some F series mowers is unlike that used in any other Kubota engine. It operates open loop. There is a device in the exhaust system called a reformer. The reformer is essentially a burner that injects fuel into the exhaust to raise the temperature during the regeneration process.

It is my understanding that the ECM bases regeneration timing upon operational history. Yes, there are temperature sensors in the DPF but I am unaware of any differential pressure sensors.

SDT

More info.

Local dealer has two more machines in shop for regen issues due to oil past valve guides/seals. One is a ZD, other is a 3350.

Interestingly, the ZD has differential pressure sensors in the DPF whereas the 3350 does not. Both have 3 OT sensors in the DPF.

Apparently, the ZD system measures differential pressure in the DPF whereas the 3350 system measures pressure in the reformer vis a vis atmosphere. Go figure.

Both systems exhibit the same issues.

SDT

 

[JimR]

I went back and read most of the previous posts and is is interesting that the 3350 has the same similar problems as my Kioti NX4510HST exhibits. One thing I caught was the oil going by the valves. I noticed oil film in the pipe going from my turbo to the intake. My dealer said that is normal and sent me pictures of the same black film from another Kioti tractor. Maybe that is the problem with mine. Maybe it is leaking oil by the valves. The dealer told me that they do not know where to go from here on my tractor in regards to what is causing my DPF regen issues. Today I messaged him about getting Kioti to replace my #2 injector that is spewing 50% more fuel into the cylinder. He previously told me that they and the Kioti rep didn't think that was enough fuel to be causing the problem that I am having. UHH, WTF, it is pushing 50% more fuel. That is a problem, replace it. I also sent a message to the Kioti customer service rep. requesting all of the service bulletins for my tractor since it was built and I gave him the serial number . That was yesterday, no reply from him or the dealer about changing the bad injector. I guess that I am on the sh-t list. I feel like a huge lemon belongs on my tractor hood.

 

[JimR]

More info.

Local dealer has two more machines in shop for regen issues due to oil past valve guides/seals. One is a ZD, other is a 3350.

Interestingly, the ZD has differential pressure sensors in the DPF whereas the 3350 does not. Both have 3 OT sensors in the DPF.

Apparently, the ZD system measures differential pressure in the DPF whereas the 3350 system measures pressure in the reformer vis a vis atmosphere. Go figure.

Both systems exhibit the same issues.

SDT

Do you know if the sensors are plugging up with soot?

 

[SDT]

Do you know if the sensors are plugging up with soot?

They are not.

The OT conditions are being caused by over fueling, which Kubota claims is caused by small amounts of oil getting past the valve seals.

Hard to believe but Kubota claims that only a small amount of oil causes OT shutdown.

Thanks, feds.

SDT

 

[JimR]

They are not.

The OT conditions are being caused by over fueling, which Kubota claims is caused by small amounts of oil getting past the valve seals.

Hard to believe but Kubota claims that only a small amount of oil causes OT shutdown.

Thanks, feds.

SDT

I guess if one of my injectors was squirting 50% more fuel then it would cause the same problem. I am talking about a 45HP Kioti. I don't think that matters as these tractors are all based on the same type of system.

 

[SDT]

I guess if one of my injectors was squirting 50% more fuel then it would cause the same problem. I am talking about a 45HP Kioti. I don't think that matters as these tractors are all based on the same type of system.

Unfamiliar with the Kioti system but one of the things that Kubota did to my 3350 before authorizing removal/repair of the cylinder head, etc., was to send out the injectors and injection pump to verify that all was within spec. It was.

SDT

 

[JimR]

Unfamiliar with the Kioti system but one of the things that Kubota did to my 3350 before authorizing removal/repair of the cylinder head, etc., was to send out the injectors and injection pump to verify that all was within spec. It was.

SDT

The Kioti can have the injectors tested on the machine. Not sure about the Inj.pump. The Kioti has a DPF exhaust and sensors in the DPF and under the turbo. They also have a differential sensor on the DPF which shows the exhaust balance from the front and rear of the DPF. This is what calls for a regen when the balance is off.

 

[RGAZ]

They also have a differential sensor on the DPF which shows the exhaust balance from the front and rear of the DPF. This is what calls for a regen when the balance is off.

This is the most basic, simplest, and most reliable method to redetermine regen. Why oh why would Kubota do the crazy method they try to do that is failure-prone, unreliable and probably more costly? Do they not realize that they have now permanently ruined the reputation of a very solid mechanically injected engine? I find it crazy stupid that they don't just sell a retrofit kit to convert the 3350's that are clearly a design defect to this and take their lumps. ****, I would buy one to avoid the crap I deal with now.

 

[JimR]

This is the most basic, simplest, and most reliable method to redetermine regen. Why oh why would Kubota do the crazy method they try to do that is failure-prone, unreliable and probably more costly? Do they not realize that they have now permanently ruined the reputation of a very solid mechanically injected engine? I find it crazy stupid that they don't just sell a retrofit kit to convert the 3350's that are clearly a design defect to this and take their lumps. ****, I would buy one to avoid the crap I deal with now.

That would be too easy and they would have to admit to a lot of people that they screwed up. As with the Kioti that I own. I wonder if the early injectors and early injection pump may be the cause for my problems. Why did they upgrade all the NX series tractors 2 years later to a different injector and a different injection pump. I asked Kioti for all the service bulletins for my tractor. I have not gotten a response from them. My thought is that failure to reply means that you are hiding something from the customer.

 

[SDT]

That would be too easy and they would have to admit to a lot of people that they screwed up. As with the Kioti that I own. I wonder if the early injectors and early injection pump may be the cause for my problems. Why did they upgrade all the NX series tractors 2 years later to a different injector and a different injection pump. I asked Kioti for all the service bulletins for my tractor. I have not gotten a response from them. My thought is that failure to reply means that you are hiding something from the customer.

Can't speak regarding Kioti, but Kubota has thrown in the towel on mechanically injected Tier IV engines and redesigned the only one so designed and sold in the US.

The new common rail injected LX3310 replacement for the B3350 has been announced and will be showing up on dealer's lots within weeks.

SDT

 

[JimR]

Can't speak regarding Kioti, but Kubota has thrown in the towel on mechanically injected Tier IV engines and redesigned the only one so designed and sold in the US.

The new common rail injected LX3310 replacement for the B3350 has been announced and will be showing up on dealer's lots within weeks.

Dean

So they redesign a tractor with a new model because the old model doesn't work right. That does not solve the problem with all the older series tractors that are bound to eventually screw up and have to be dealt with by the customers. I see a class action lawsuit coming for Kubota. The least that they could have done is retro fitted the 3350 with the new system and alleviated the problem. Kioti has a new system already too for the NX series. Weill it be the final Teir IV? , not sure. They call it the CRDI diesel with Daedong ECO Technology.

 

[SDT]

So they redesign a tractor with a new model because the old model doesn't work right. That does not solve the problem with all the older series tractors that are bound to eventually screw up and have to be dealt with by the customers. I see a class action lawsuit coming for Kubota. The least that they could have done is retro fitted the 3350 with the new system and alleviated the problem. Kioti has a new system already too for the NX series. Weill it be the final Teir IV? , not sure. They call it the CRDI diesel with Daedong ECO Technology.

Do not expect a class action law suit in this case.

Not enough potential for attorneys.

SDT

 

[bumperm]

I went through the DPF and sensors replacing drill last year on my 2013 3350 at about 880 hours. Cost right around $6K which adds about $5 in operating costs per hour. What a rip-off. Speaking of rip-offs, a friend of a friend is wondering if the various DPF emulators are that? Of course this would be used on a tractor that is not operated in the USA. I was just curious, mind you, but can't find a single review online. Think these are made in Turkey:Emulator

 

[SDT]

I went through the DPF and sensors replacing drill last year on my 2013 3350 at about 880 hours. Cost right around $6K which adds about $5 in operating costs per hour. What a rip-off. Speaking of rip-offs, a friend of a friend is wondering if the various DPF emulators are that? Of course this would be used on a tractor that is not operated in the USA. I was just curious, mind you, but can't find a single review online. Think these are made in Turkey:Emulator

Kubota recently extended the warranty on the B3350 reformer and related components (with provisions) for the life of the machine. Do not know Kubota's policy regarding those who have already paid for emissions system repairs but it would certainly be worth inquiring in order to find out.

SDT

 

[bumperm]

Thank you! I'll check with my dealer again. Before I had the work done, I asked about any extension - they checked and got back to me with a "NO". Can you point me to a Kubota source on the extension? They still may deny a refund, but a definitive source would surely help.

bumper

 

[RickB]

Thank you! I'll check with my dealer again. Before I had the work done, I asked about any extension - they checked and got back to me with a "NO". Can you point me to a Kubota source on the extension? They still may deny a refund, but a definitive source would surely help.

bumper

There is another thread here that specifies the exact bulletin by number. I verified the bulletin number and its contents a while back, the info posted is correct. I'll look for it and if I find it I'll come back here and link it.