Heating. Propane vs Electric vs Wood Pellet

rick1ryan · Dec 12, 2019

I have a 40X90 and currently heat it with a propane shop heater. In the Spring, I'm intending to install 2, 4-ton mini-split heat pump units. I believe a single unit with 2 zones would be the best option for your situation. Should run you about $3k and is pretty easy to self-install.

5030 · Dec 12, 2019

Rustyiron said:
I remember about 15 -20 years ago a friend got into corn stoves, well before wood pellets (at least where I was) they sort of put a light pleasant popcorn kind of smell in the air. Iirc it was questionable if you could just get your corn from the local grainery. I never got into it and it may have been a moisture issue, could have been that they just wanted to sell you the same thing, just in their bag at their price:laughing:

Until this year TSC pushed wood pellets. They didn't this year because, I think other fuels have become inexpensive compared to pellets. One issue in the past I found with TSC pellets is, the 'store associates' don't store them under roof and their 'quality' forklift drivers tend to puncture bags so junk pellets abound and they always pizzed up the pipe if you returned any and finally, they had quality issues. I know if I bought pellets from them I wanted 2 brands only, Lignetics and Michigan Hardwood. Everything else was junk.

Now, with corn, no issue. It's all bone dry (10%RM or less), all cleaned and screened and delivered to my grain tank with some in 50 pound bags and ot's free (best part). I have, on hand, about 2 years worth right now.

PILOON · Dec 12, 2019

It's a shop.
Do U want to work/play? or haul fuel (wood, pellets etc)
Electric or gas are the most trouble free with electric the cheapest to install but that depends of your local fuel costs.
Next how dependable is your electric source?
If very well insulated gas or electric might not be all that costly, besides you can use intelligent thermostats timed for your 'work' (play) hours.

In my shop (cold Canada) I insulated my shop as well as my home and used electric generally set just above 'cold' which I pump up when I am on a project.
Otherwise it is habitable as well as keeps all my tools from rusting.
Heck I suspect my tractor block heater might (almost) cost more to keep warm than the shop.

Oh, sure ultimate system is probably thermo pump driving in floor heating, but at what cost?

My shop heat is actually a construction heater (4000BTU) hanging from a ceiling bracket and is serves me well!

5030 · Dec 12, 2019

My shop has in floor (PEX) heat and nothing beats warm feet in my view. I heat the entire shop with a 30 gallon propane fired HWH and piped glycol in OB PEX that is zoned. Keep the floor at 72 all winter.

PEJ5 · Dec 13, 2019

5030 said:
My shop has in floor (PEX) heat and nothing beats warm feet in my view. I heat the entire shop with a 30 gallon propane fired HWH and piped glycol in OB PEX that is zoned. Keep the floor at 72 all winter.

5030:. Is this a commercial solution or a DIY setup?. It sounds straight forward - hot water tank, pump, zone valves and thermostats. I expect you have an air tank to deal with expansion as well.

I have a garage with a second floor that I am turning into winterized living space. The attic, walls and stairwell are well insulated and sealed. Heatpump install is next week. Once the electrical and plumbing are completed I will insulate the garage ceiling (living space floor). It is 16" engineered joists so I can get about R45 or R50 in that cavity. The garage will be insulated but not be heated, except on occasion.

A question for you and others... Will a well insulated living space floor be enough to feel warm under foot or should I consider installing PEX in the joists for future "under' floor heating? The piping would have to run under the top cord of the joists (2x4). If so, what spacing should I use for the piping?

Egon · Dec 13, 2019

Run an in floor heating system on top of the floor.

5030 · Dec 13, 2019

PEJ5 said:
5030:. Is this a commercial solution or a DIY setup?. It sounds straight forward - hot water tank, pump, zone valves and thermostats. I expect you have an air tank to deal with expansion as well.

I have a garage with a second floor that I am turning into winterized living space. The attic, walls and stairwell are well insulated and sealed. Heatpump install is next week. Once the electrical and plumbing are completed I will insulate the garage ceiling (living space floor). It is 16" engineered joists so I can get about R45 or R50 in that cavity. The garage will be insulated but not be heated, except on occasion.

A question for you and others... Will a well insulated living space floor be enough to feel warm under foot or should I consider installing PEX in the joists for future "under' floor heating? The piping would have to run under the top cord of the joists (2x4). If so, what spacing should I use for the piping?View attachment 632351 View attachment 632352

Half and half. I did the install myself after lots of reading and looking at various installs. All the parts are commercial quality, I used a manifold from Farm-Tek (Califfi) and a feedwater pump from Taco with commercial oxygen barrier PEX stood off in the concrete slab above the re-rod with 6" of pink foam insulation underneath on top of a vapor barrier and 8" in the rat wall. I used a Honeywell commercial remote probe T'stat epoxied in the slab to control the temp (it's wired to the feedwater pump). Really, it was easy to do and I'm glad I did it and yes, I use a small bladder (air tank to maintain system pressure as well as 2 air bleeds to purge the entrained oxygen from the Glycol. I leave the floor temp at a constant 72 (f), year around. In the summer when the ground temp is above 72, the system stays idle but once winter sets in and it gets cold, when the floor temp drops the system kicks in. I've found it's better tp just leave it on rather than waiting for cold weather and then running the floor temp up. Takes a lot of BTU's to heat a 20 x 40 slab that is 10 inches thick, that is a huge amount of mass to heat.

I see that now you can buy pre-plumbed sections of pex-mat to install under flooring, between joists. Menards sells them, seen them in the store. I see they also sell a resistance mat, same application and I may install that under our existing bathroom tile floor as the tile is terribly cold in the winter as I keep the basement cool. No point in heating a storage space.

5030 · Dec 13, 2019

Egon said:
Run an in floor heating system on top of the floor.

You can do them on the underside now as well.

Rustyiron · Dec 14, 2019

5030 said:
You can do them on the underside now as well.

And that means you can do it later if your floor is uncomfortable*. I think with that big (deep) floor joist cavity that you'll be able to insulate it enough for most situations. BUT if you already are making hot water in that building the added cost is not that much. How about stapling up the pex anyway before you insulate, that might be the best plan for a couple of hundred bucks you'll be radiant ready. I say this as I have a 4' cantelever area that's open to the weather that is noticeable after a long spell of very cold. It's not uncomfortably cold but noticeable for sure. It's about a 12" cavity that's filled with p-iso foam at about r-7 per inch, but like I said, completely out in the weather at the 2nd floor and the shady side of the building.

*short of having to pull the insulation, but that would not be a deal breaker for me.

edit; just saw your strapping in the pics. If it were me I'd install the pex at least.