ARC Fault Breakers. Your Experiences.

   / ARC Fault Breakers. Your Experiences. #71  
Year back and I do mean YEARS Back, my parents house had two glass fuses, one for the kitchen and one for the rest of the house.

Sorry got carried away AGAIN !

Don't even have to go way back as there are plenty still around...

Looked at a 3 bedroom 1 bath 1100 square feet Craftsman Bungalow circa 1922... all original 1922... meaning bath, kitchen, windows, electric and plumbing...

The main for this 650k home was a single glass 30 amp fuse... the panel one 15 amp light circuit and one 20 amp plug circuit... each room had a lamp and outlet... the bathroom had a lamp with in fixture outlet.

No GFCI or ArcFault or circuit breakers... etc... home was overbid too...
 
   / ARC Fault Breakers. Your Experiences. #72  
According to a Web Search, 1999 was the first year for the AFCI.

After reading some of this stuff, I checked my Main Panel, my house was built in 2009, and has the AFCI for all of the Bedrooms but nothing else. When I purchased this house in SoCal in 2013, and remodeled the whole interior, I had to have an Electrican evaluate and do some of the work, he let me assist. I saw the AFCI's and asked about them and was told only the bedrooms needed them, which goes along with the 1999 Electrical Code. There were no GFCI for the outside receptacles, no GFCI for the Kitchen or the bath, which is something I thought was the accepted practice, well before 2013.

I asked if it was something that is acceptable and was told it was a good practice, so I have some more GFCI for those rooms.

In 2014, I just missed it, the Electrical Code changed to all living spaces require AFCI... are they better than the GFCI ?
I understand the differences, per this Thread, but wondering if they are better, not just suppose to be !
 
   / ARC Fault Breakers. Your Experiences. #73  
In 2014, I just missed it, the Electrical Code changed to all living spaces require AFCI... are they better than the GFCI ?
I understand the differences, per this Thread, but wondering if they are better, not just suppose to be !

GFCI and AFCI do different things, so they can't be compared to say that one is better than the other.

GFCI potentially protects people from being electrocuted.
AFCI detects arcing, so can potentially prevent a fire.

You can buy circuit breakers that are GFCI, AFCI or both. Are you asking if AFCIs are worth installing?

Chris
 
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   / ARC Fault Breakers. Your Experiences. #74  
AFCI will catch arcing between hot and neutral (such as if you ran an extension cord under the rug, or if you have an electric blanket or heating pad that has a element that is starting to fail and overheat at the break).
GFCI only looks to see that the power going out on the hot matches the power coming back on the neutral.

Aaron Z
 
   / ARC Fault Breakers. Your Experiences. #75  
In 2014 Code bathrooms, and unfinished basements didn't need AFCI.
In 2020 this has been changed to ALL 120V, 1-phase 15/20 amps outlets in dwellings.

Are they better than GFCI? Are apples better than oranges?
They really do different things. And solve different problems.

With most short circuits where you have "good grounds" (green wire connected to metal parts), and a short circuit to that metal part occurs, the "good ground" lets such a large amount of short circuit current to pass that the standard breaker trips or a fuse blows. It's sort of counter-intuitive that you WANT a LARGE amount of short circuit current to occur. So you give it a nice (green wire) path.

GFCI's solve the problem when you have bad grounds (no green wires, or poor, etc..) and the short circuit current doesn't have a good path back to the transformer and current is not large enough to trip the breaker and the metal enclosure stays energized waiting for someone to come along and touch it. GFCI's trip on the tiniest of stray ground fault current.

Like other have said AFCI's compensate for poor contractors.
AFCI's are for the problem where all the current stays IN the proper wire path (i.e. no ground fault for a GFCI to detect), but a poor wiring connection creates electrical resistance at a connection. This is equivalent to creating a mini-heater at that connection (switch, receptacle, junction, etc..) in series with the normal load being operated. This heat can melt things and catch surrounding materials on fire. AFCI's are suppose to detect the arc that comes with these poor connections.
...but note: for this "mini-heater" to be created, the "normal" load has to be pulling enough current that it creates heat at the bad connection.

For most loads like lighting and motors, if there's a bad connection that adds resistance to the circuit (and reduces the voltage the load sees) the user will detect that full voltage is not getting to the load and know there's a problem (lights may flicker, motor may not start, etc..) hopefully before the "mini-heater" bad connection ignites.
But if your running a (say) space heater, you're not going to detect that it's only putting out 1000 watts instead of 1600W, meanwhile the receptacle connection is putting out 300 Watts of heat, etc...(made up numbers). GFCI's or standard breakers can't detect this mini-heater in the circuit because no current is leaking elsewhere, and there is no overload happening (the current might actually decrease with the increased circuit resistance).

If you confident wiring was installed properly, my GUT feeling is GFCI's protect better for future unintended events (like dropping radio in bathtub, insulation on a extension cord getting nicked, etc..). Again: apples and oranges.

:2cents:
 
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   / ARC Fault Breakers. Your Experiences.
  • Thread Starter
#76  
The stupid thing about GFIs is that they start to cause problems in EXACTLY the locations they were meant to serve. Hardly a point running outside extension cords in the wet, X-Mas lights or a block heater. They will trip every time!
 
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   / ARC Fault Breakers. Your Experiences. #77  
The stupid thing about GFIs is that they stat to cause problems in EXACTLY the locations they were meant to serve. Hardly a point running outside extension cords in the wet, X-Mas lights or a block heater. They will trip every time!

Our Xmas lights tripped off two nights ago in a thunderstorm.
The protected plug for the outside, is actually wired through a GFCI inside the garage, behind my stored trailer.
The Xmas lights are thus already done for this year.
I ain't movin all that shxt!
 
   / ARC Fault Breakers. Your Experiences.
  • Thread Starter
#78  
You need to repost that in the "Just Not Feelin It" Thread.

Many people get messed up when multiple outside recepticals are fed off one GFI.
 
   / ARC Fault Breakers. Your Experiences. #79  
I never thought farmers would know much about AFCI's and GFCI's I was wrong.:shocked: I never had problems with GFCI outlets if the connections were not soaked in water.. even then, dielectric grease on the plug and socket of an extension cord will prevent the water from tripping the outlet..
 
   / ARC Fault Breakers. Your Experiences.
  • Thread Starter
#80  
GFI.jpg

I hope these guys remembered to grease up their plugs. lol
 

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