Split My TC45 Today

[cpayne5]

Hi, folks. I split my TC45 today. The clutch has been slipping, and there was no more adjustment left in the clutch pedal/rod. So, with nothing left to do externally, I dug in for a clutch R&R.

It didn't come apart all that smoothly and the pto input shaft ended up sliding out of the transmission. Not sure if was hung up in the pilot bearing or damper, or if the angle of the split was just putting it in a bind. I tried to take great care in having it split level and parallel, so I'm not convinced it wasn't hung up in the damper or pilot bearing. Either way, it pulled out. The shaft slides right back into its home and turns freely, engaging whatever it engages deep in the trans (so it seems).

My question is, is this OK? Is this shaft just floating in there, able to come out? I don't see any place where a circlip would live - not that I could have ripped a circlip off...I don't think. Are there any seals that may have been damaged when it pulled out? I just want to make sure all's well before I make it a whole tractor again.

Any insight is appreciated. I'll attach a parts diagram. Shaft in question is #27.

Thank you.

 

[JC-jetro]

I was hoping someone with direct TC-45 knowledge would chime in by now. Attached you'll see pics of the same work on Ford 1700. Disclaimer; I yet to need to split my 1700 yet. Pics belonged to another individual with a lot of mechanical aptitude. He pulled the input shaft out from transmission to help it as aligning tool to position the splines on the clutch disk when he put the two ends together. The 4 bolt holes that you see on transmission case hold the input shaft in place. I looked at the your parts diagram and could not see the possible circle clip. I don't believe you damaged anything. Can you post some pics. Do you have the throw-out bearing holder the same as 3rd pic I Posted?

JC,

Hi, folks. I split my TC45 today. The clutch has been slipping, and there was no more adjustment left in the clutch pedal/rod. So, with nothing left to do externally, I dug in for a clutch R&R.

It didn't come apart all that smoothly and the pto input shaft ended up sliding out of the transmission. Not sure if was hung up in the pilot bearing or damper, or if the angle of the split was just putting it in a bind. I tried to take great care in having it split level and parallel, so I'm not convinced it wasn't hung up in the damper or pilot bearing. Either way, it pulled out. The shaft slides right back into its home and turns freely, engaging whatever it engages deep in the trans (so it seems).

My question is, is this OK? Is this shaft just floating in there, able to come out? I don't see any place where a circlip would live - not that I could have ripped a circlip off...I don't think. Are there any seals that may have been damaged when it pulled out? I just want to make sure all's well before I make it a whole tractor again.

Any insight is appreciated. I'll attach a parts diagram. Shaft in question is #27.

Thank you.

View attachment 634560

 

[cpayne5]

Thanks for the reply, JC. I've attached some pictures.

Yes, the release bearing hub is the same as the one you attached, but it appears the setup for the 1700 is different.

The setup on my TC45 is a nesting doll. The innermost shaft hosts the pilot (rod/shaft/whatever). This is the shaft that became dislodged during the split. That is the shaft that slides into the PTO damper that is bolted to the interior of the flywheel. This shaft rides inside of the shaft that connects to the clutch - the transmission input shaft.

The inner shaft can be removed with two fingers. It slides in and out very easily. When sliding it in, I don't feel anything rough as if anything broke. There are no marks on the shaft indicating any sort of trauma. I'm most worried about the possibility of a damaged seal somewhere up in there that will leak and destroy my new clutch when I get everything back together.

Here's a video of me pulling the shaft I'm talking about. Again, it comes out super easy. Video

I've attached a few pictures. We all like pictures!

Thanks again for the reply.

PTO input shaft pulled out. See the video above on how easy it comes out.


The input shafts in place. New release bearing installed.


Fun times! If it all works when I'm done, anyway.


The rivets on the clutch were gouging the pressure plate.


The pressure plate side of the clutch. Down to the rivets. The flywheel side of the clutch disc isn't anywhere near this bad - the rivets are still buried beneath plenty of friction material. As such, the flywheel is fine.

 

[JC-jetro]

Nice, I very much like the well organized chaos around the split tractor, Looks good. I think the inner shaft( solid) is going directly to rear PTO (Independent). Do you have hydraulically activated wet PTO clutch pack? I had to google "Nesting Doll" (i'e, inner and outer input shaft), the outer one is your transmission. On 1700 the pto is transmission driven(not live) so, clutching will kill the pto. On yours it is independent so inner shaft is directly coupled to flywheel. since you do not have "live", two stage clutch then I think the outer splined shaft engages with clutch disk splines. I know that is kind of what I have on my kubota MX-4700. I have not studied TC45 in details to know for sure. All and all, I think you have done well. I hate to comment on something that I have not done myself but I researched it much in the past when i bought my Kubota. Good luck and looking forward to completed project.

JC,


PS, did you say that inner shaft engages the clutch disk splines?

 

[cpayne5]

The inner shaft engages the damper plate, which is bolted directly to the flywheel. It looks like the middle spring plate thing that's on a clutch.

 

[JC-jetro]

The inner shaft engages the damper plate, which is bolted directly to the flywheel. It looks like the middle spring plate thing that's on a clutch.

Yup ,exactly ... so anytime the engine is on the inner (pto) shaft rotates with it and then engages with final Pto shaft via sliding gear(mechanical) or a set of wet clutch disks (hydraulically) which would be a better set up. Clutching should not effect the PTO rotation hence (independent PTO).

 

[cpayne5]

Yup ,exactly ... so anytime the engine is on the inner (pto) shaft rotates with it and then engages with final Pto shaft via sliding gear(mechanical) or a set of wet clutch disks (hydraulically) which would be a better set up. Clutching should not effect the PTO rotation hence (independent PTO).

:thumbsup:

 

[cpayne5]

Got the new clutch and pressure plate in place tonight. I used a pilot bearing adapter and shaft from a universal clutch alignment kit to create a custom "tool" to align the pilot, clutch, and damper. It's just electrical tape. I put enough on there to make the fit snug at both the clutch and damper. It seemed to work well - to be determined when it gets rolled back together on Wednesday!

 

[JC-jetro]

Nice, Beefy looking pressure plate. I like your aligning tool, as long as it aligns with he center of the pilot hole you are good to go. Did the clutch kit not have an aligning tool, a plastic jobby? I am glad you did not have two stage clutch as that would cost much more. So, Wednesday is the day of reckoning?

Good luck and as my boys tell me "qaplah Dad! "

 

[cpayne5]

Yep, the nose slides into the pilot bearing.

There was no alignment tool in the kit I purchased. It came from "jeffcube" on eBay. Jeff's Tractor Parts out of Iowa.

The fingers on the pressure plate are way lower than the old one I removed. Hopefully there's enough adjustment in the linkage to get the job done.

 

[JC-jetro]

Yes, I noticed the fingers. on couple of automotive clutch that I replaced I noticed the the tines are a bit proud of the pressure plate outer housing facing out. it seems the housing is exactly the same. Was the original length of clutch plate splined section different? if so, it would give a bit of optical illusion. I hope you end up having enough adjustment without having the release fork end up touching pressure plate housing. i looked at the pics again, pressure plate looks identical, is there any way that you have installed the clutch plate with the wrong side against the flywheel? do you think you might have to rotate the clutch plate 180 degrees?

 

[cpayne5]

Pretty sure the clutch disc is on correctly. "Fat" side towards the transmission, same as the original one. I'm going to pull it apart tonight and get some measurements. On the bench, the pressure plate fingers protruded, similar to the old one I removed. They retracted as the pressure plate was drawn down to the flywheel.

It could be that this is just normal and the old plate fingers protruded due to the old clutch disc being so worn.

I'm going to send an email to the guy I bought the kit from to see what he thinks.

 

[cpayne5]

I just spoke to the clutch guy and he said the fingers should be flat, so I guess it's OK.

 

[JC-jetro]

sound good. I don;t reckon there is no need to take them apart for a looksy. As long as the bolts are uniformly tightened and torqued you are good to go. I know the fingers move a bit inward due to spring tension as you torque them down. Had the same experience with my son's Mitsubishi.

 

[cpayne5]

I did a bit of measuring and pedal adjustment in preparation tonight. I think it's going to work, but the engagement point on the pedal is going to be very low.

 

[JC-jetro]

I did a bit of measuring and pedal adjustment in preparation tonight. I think it's going to work, but the engagement point on the pedal is going to be very low.

I hope it all works, that would be a nice New year present to self. Did you get to measure the actual length of clutch plate splined section and compared it with old clutch disk?

 

[cpayne5]

The two have become one once again. It went back together pretty easy, but the clutch pedal didn't have enough travel to release the clutch. So, I pulled it apart and added some washers between the pressure plate and flywheel. That seems to have worked. I'll know once I go on that first test drive! But, pushing it by hand in the garage has given good results so far.

I was happy to get it back together, so I took the rest of the day off. I'll get around to the rest of it this weekend, probably.

No, I never measured the splines.

 

[ptsg]

The two have become one once again. It went back together pretty easy, but the clutch pedal didn't have enough travel to release the clutch. So, I pulled it apart and added some washers between the pressure plate and flywheel. That seems to have worked. I'll know once I go on that first test drive! But, pushing it by hand in the garage has given good results so far.

I was happy to get it back together, so I took the rest of the day off. I'll get around to the rest of it this weekend, probably.

No, I never measured the splines.

You're reducing the pressure of the pressure plate on the disc by doing that.

Make sure the clutch is not slipping under load.

 

[cpayne5]

You're reducing the pressure of the pressure plate on the disc by doing that.

Make sure the clutch is not slipping under load.

I agree, not ideal, but it was the only way to get proper clutch disengagement with the pressure plate I've got.

FWIW, I used very thin washers and believe I have the least amount of shimming required to get the job done.

 

[JC-jetro]

i am afraid the clutch now might wear per-maturely. Was there anyway to put some sort of washer or spacer just on the back of the release bearing to get it bit closer to the fingers? just pulling out of the thin air, can the old bearing be used on the hub just before the new bearing to give it a 1/4" or so distance. I ended up using an old bearing race to reduce the play on my steering box overhaul. basically I used the old bearing race as a big dia, fat washer/spacer on the sector shaft that had a broken end tab. it did work, lost fine adjustment but worked and better than not having steering.