Buying advice - 14 Acre Property - Subcompact or full size/

Colorado91 · Apr 13, 2020

Afternoon all,

I have recently acquired a 14 acre block that I will soon be building on. The terrain of the property changes from rolling hills to some steep slopes.

I currently own a Ford 4100 which has been good but it lacks 4WD. I find when the grass is wet I am limited to what I can do with it. I have a mower which I use quite often but am only able to mow some parts of the property due to slippage on hills

The property came with a litter of pines in which we are in the process of felling and removing - the tractor comes in handy for this as its a long way from the bottom of the property to the roadside to dispose of the trees.

The property was also covered with a pest plant here in New Zealand called gorse. We periodically have contractors come in to spray these pests / mulch with a flail - something I am sure we could do with a new tractor.

We will be a shed on the back of property and also a house at some point which will require gravel driveways from top to bottom - Approx 150m,

I started off looking at compact tractors but now I am thinking due to the slopes a larger tractor with a wider stance may be a wiser idea.

Prices of tractors here are not too bad - I have just had a dealer offer me a New Holland TD80D with 2000 hours for approx 15000 usd. It is in quite tidy condition

I plan to run a box blade, flail mulcher and rotary hoe from this tractor.

Looking for some direction as to what size I should be aiming for. My budget is approx $15000 usd

jeff9366 · Apr 14, 2020

Colorado91 said:
I have recently acquired a 14 acre block that I will soon be building on. The terrain of the property changes from rolling hills to some steep slopes. I started off looking at compact tractors but now I am thinking due to the slopes a larger tractor with a wider stance may be a wiser idea.

I currently own a Ford 4100 which has been good but it lacks 4WD. I find when the grass is wet I am limited to what I can do with it. I have a mower which I use quite often but am only able to mow some parts of the property due to slippage on hills

The property came with a litter of pines in which we are in the process of felling and removing - the tractor comes in handy for this as its a long way from the bottom of the property to the roadside to dispose of the trees.

I plan to run a box blade, flail mulcher and rotary hoe from this tractor.

Quite useful information in your first T-B-N post. WELCOME.

The most effective method to increase tractor stability is to increase spread of wheels.
Your Ford 4100 is 2-WD. Have you explored increasing wheel/tire spread front and rear? ( Increasing front wheel spread increases turning radius.)

A replacement 4-WD tractor will have adjustable rear wheel spread with R1/ag tires. A few tractors, not many, also have adjustable rear wheel spread with R4/industrial tires. 4-WD tractors do not have adjustable front wheel spacing. 4-WD will enhance downhill braking. Smaller diameter R4/industrial tires decrease ground clearance, relative to R1/ag tires, increasing tractor stability.

The second most effective method to increase tractor stability is to lower tractor center of gravity.
Your Ford 4100 has a high ground clearance of 17.3". Almost any replacement compact tractor you shop will have around 13" of ground clearance. A 4" reduction in ground clearance will make a huge difference in tractor stability. Smaller diameter R4/industrial tires decrease ground clearance, relative to R1/ag tires.

I recommend an increment smaller, lighter (3,700 - 4,000 pounds bare tractor weight), 4-WD replacement tractor with a tractor width of 66" (+/-) with adjustable rear wheel spread, a ground clearance of 12"-13"-14" and 3/4 liquid filled rear tires. Cannot recommend what rear wheel spread you should have as your need to pass between trees will influence that. Wider is safer. Most on T-B-N feel HST is the safest transmission to use on hills. I have owned gear and HST. I prefer HST.

45-horsepower to 50-horsepower should be adequate on hills and powering your planned implements.

I trust you will seek a replacement tractor with a FEL. (Front End Loader) Most tractor/loaders have R4/industrial tires.
Consider a grapple. VIDEO:tractor grapple - YouTube

A Rotary Cutter (Bush Hog) is a much more rugged mowing implement than a Flail Mower.

Ponder if a coil-spring protected Field Cultivator/All Purpose Plow would rip out problem Gorse. Ford/Dearborn and Ferguson, among others, made them under different names. PHOTOS #1 - #4
T-B-N ARCHIVE: https://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachments/339095-dirt-dog-all-purpose-plow.html?highlight=

Would not pit burning Pines in two or three places on your land simplify and speed up clearance?
Consider a PTO-powered logging winch. VIDEO: tractor logging winch - YouTube

Ford 4100 - dimensions

1975 - 1981
Utility tractor
Series next: Ford 4600

Dimensions:
Weight: 4655 lbs [2111 kg]
Wheelbase: 77.3 inches [196 cm]
Length: 136.3 inches [346 cm]
Width: 70.8 inches [179 cm] *
Ground clearance: 17.3 inches [43 cm]
Front tread: 52 to 80 inches
[132 to 203 cm]
Rear tread: 56 to 80 inches
[142 to 203 cm]
56 to 90 inches*
[142 to 228 cm] ((With power-adjust rear wheels.))

rScotty · Apr 14, 2020

Sounds like you have enough experience to know what you want. That New Holland is quite a step up from the Ford, both in power and in weight. And the Ford itself is larger than a compact tractor. Do you prefer those larger utility plus size machines? Do you need that power? Most compact tractors will be half the weight or the Ford or NH, and although closer to the ground their wheelbase is narrower and less adjustable. So the sidehill stability is not much different. Compacts also don't tend to have nearly the 3pt power or the adjustability and features that a utility size tractor has.

For even a mild slope I have found 4wd very useful. Not just for traction, but for braking as well. 4wd couples the front wheels to the rear wheel brakes and that is handy on slopes.

Tire tread width adjustability varies all over the place. It doesn't seem to have rhyme or reason. Some models have it, and others do not. Front wheel width doesn't gain you much if any stability, rear wheel width makes a huge difference. Wider lower profile tires help even more. I find that compacts rarely have many options for changing width, while some utility size tractors have a lot of adjustability. Interestingly, I see older models with built in width adjustability more often than on newer models.

Or maybe I'm reading too much into the width thing. After all, you have been using the 2wd Ford 4100 apparently successfully; what is is that you would like for a new tractor to do better or differently? Hmm....does your Ford have the optional adjustable rear wheel width? That was common in the Ford's era...
rScotty

oosik · Apr 14, 2020

I agree with jeff9366. Wider tire spread, loaded rear tires, 4WD, FEL. Some tractors - my Kubota M6040 - do have adjustable front & rear wheel spread. My rear tires are as wide as they can go. My front tires are in a neutral position. I use my grapple to lift heavy loads. Any position other than neutral puts an added load/strain on the front gears, bearings & axle casing.

You might want to consider a cabbed tractor. If you have extremes of weather or do a lot of brush hogging in very dry conditions. Otherwise - save this $$$$ and use for implements.

buickanddeere · Apr 14, 2020

a "large" 4WD tractor and a dedicated lawn tractor or zero turn mower to cut the grass. Installing radial ATV tires on lawn tractors and zero turns usually takes care of traction problems . Without tearing up the lawn. If the problem weeks are sprayed with a mix such as roundup and 24D. They will be killed to the roots. Is this weed growing from seed ?

Rmart30 · Apr 14, 2020

I have a L4600 on 12 acres. I don't feel ive got too much tractor right now. Once I ever get it transformed back into something nice and not over grown and neglected, then I might feel like I have too much tractor.

Colorado91 · Apr 15, 2020

oosik said:
I agree with jeff9366. Wider tire spread, loaded rear tires, 4WD, FEL. Some tractors - my Kubota M6040 - do have adjustable front & rear wheel spread. My rear tires are as wide as they can go. My front tires are in a neutral position. I use my grapple to lift heavy loads. Any position other than neutral puts an added load/strain on the front gears, bearings & axle casing.

You might want to consider a cabbed tractor. If you have extremes of weather or do a lot of brush hogging in very dry conditions. Otherwise - save this $$$$ and use for implements.

I found myself toying with the idea of a cab. I think an open station may be more suitable for myself as I find I am stepping on and off the machine regularly

Colorado91 · Apr 15, 2020

jeff9366 said:
Quite useful information in your first T-B-N post. WELCOME.

The most effective method to increase tractor stability is to increase spread of wheels.
Your Ford 4100 is 2-WD. Have you explored increasing wheel/tire spread front and rear? ( Increasing front wheel spread increases turning radius.)

A replacement 4-WD tractor will have adjustable rear wheel spread with R1/ag tires. A few tractors, not many, also have adjustable rear wheel spread with R4/industrial tires. 4-WD tractors do not have adjustable front wheel spacing. 4-WD will enhance downhill braking. Smaller diameter R4/industrial tires decrease ground clearance, relative to R1/ag tires, increasing tractor stability.

The second most effective method to increase tractor stability is to lower tractor center of gravity.
Your Ford 4100 has a high ground clearance of 17.3". Almost any replacement compact tractor you shop will have around 13" of ground clearance. A 4" reduction in ground clearance will make a huge difference in tractor stability. Smaller diameter R4/industrial tires decrease ground clearance, relative to R1/ag tires.

I recommend an increment smaller, lighter (3,700 - 4,000 pounds bare tractor weight), 4-WD replacement tractor with a tractor width of 66" (+/-) with adjustable rear wheel spread, a ground clearance of 12"-13"-14" and 3/4 liquid filled rear tires. Cannot recommend what rear wheel spread you should have as your need to pass between trees will influence that. Wider is safer. Most on T-B-N feel HST is the safest transmission to use on hills. I have owned gear and HST. I prefer HST.

45-horsepower to 50-horsepower should be adequate on hills and powering your planned implements.

I trust you will seek a replacement tractor with a FEL. (Front End Loader) Most tractor/loaders have R4/industrial tires.
Consider a grapple. VIDEO:tractor grapple - YouTube

A Rotary Cutter (Bush Hog) is a much more rugged mowing implement than a Flail Mower.

Ponder if a coil-spring protected Field Cultivator/All Purpose Plow would rip out problem Gorse. Ford/Dearborn and Ferguson, among others, made them under different names. PHOTOS #1 - #4
T-B-N ARCHIVE: https://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachments/339095-dirt-dog-all-purpose-plow.html?highlight=

Would not pit burning Pines in two or three places on your land simplify and speed up clearance?
Consider a PTO-powered logging winch. VIDEO: tractor logging winch - YouTube

Ford 4100 - dimensions

1975 - 1981
Utility tractor
Series next: Ford 4600

Dimensions:
Weight: 4655 lbs [2111 kg]
Wheelbase: 77.3 inches [196 cm]
Length: 136.3 inches [346 cm]
Width: 70.8 inches [179 cm] *
Ground clearance: 17.3 inches [43 cm]
Front tread: 52 to 80 inches
[132 to 203 cm]
Rear tread: 56 to 80 inches
[142 to 203 cm]
56 to 90 inches*
[142 to 228 cm] ((With power-adjust rear wheels.))

The most effective method to increase tractor stability is to increase spread of wheels.
Your Ford 4100 is 2-WD. Have you explored increasing wheel/tire spread front and rear? ( Increasing front wheel spread increases turning radius.)

The rear wheels on the 4100 are at full width - the tyres have also been liquid filled

A replacement 4-WD tractor will have adjustable rear wheel spread with R1/ag tires. A few tractors, not many, also have adjustable rear wheel spread with R4/industrial tires. 4-WD tractors do not have adjustable front wheel spacing. 4-WD will enhance downhill braking. Smaller diameter R4/industrial tires decrease ground clearance, relative to R1/ag tires, increasing tractor stability.

The second most effective method to increase tractor stability is to lower tractor center of gravity.
Your Ford 4100 has a high ground clearance of 17.3". Almost any replacement compact tractor you shop will have around 13" of ground clearance. A 4" reduction in ground clearance will make a huge difference in tractor stability. Smaller diameter R4/industrial tires decrease ground clearance, relative to R1/ag tires.

I recommend an increment smaller, lighter (3,700 - 4,000 pounds bare tractor weight), 4-WD replacement tractor with a tractor width of 66" (+/-) with adjustable rear wheel spread, a ground clearance of 12"-13"-14" and 3/4 liquid filled rear tires. Cannot recommend what rear wheel spread you should have as your need to pass between trees will influence that. Wider is safer. Most on T-B-N feel HST is the safest transmission to use on hills. I have owned gear and HST. I prefer HST.

- Right, I have steered away from HST in the past as my local tractor mechanic (who is very cheap and old school) prefers non HST transmissions. The more I looks at tractors it seems they are all going this way!

45-horsepower to 50-horsepower should be adequate on hills and powering your planned implements.
- This is what I assumed, although some of the larger flail mulchers I have been looking require 50hp minimum. I also assumed (possibly wrongly?) that a post rammer may require a bigger sized tractor

I trust you will seek a replacement tractor with a FEL. (Front End Loader) Most tractor/loaders have R4/industrial tires.
- Grapple is on the list of things to buy for sure

A Rotary Cutter (Bush Hog) is a much more rugged mowing implement than a Flail Mower
- Sorry I should have stated originally the mower I have currently is a rotary cutter, I require a flail mower for the ability of hydraulic side shift for our road side lawn

Ponder if a coil-spring protected Field Cultivator/All Purpose Plow would rip out problem Gorse. Ford/Dearborn and Ferguson, among others, made them under different names. PHOTOS #1 - #4
- Something to look into, to be honest never something I have seen before

Would not pit burning Pines in two or three places on your land simplify and speed up clearance?
- Unfortunately this is something we cannot do. Bylaws surround our property prevent us from burning - Somewhat painful!

Colorado91 · Apr 15, 2020

rScotty said:
Sounds like you have enough experience to know what you want. That New Holland is quite a step up from the Ford, both in power and in weight. And the Ford itself is larger than a compact tractor. Do you prefer those larger utility plus size machines? Do you need that power? Most compact tractors will be half the weight or the Ford or NH, and although closer to the ground their wheelbase is narrower and less adjustable. So the sidehill stability is not much different. Compacts also don't tend to have nearly the 3pt power or the adjustability and features that a utility size tractor has.

For even a mild slope I have found 4wd very useful. Not just for traction, but for braking as well. 4wd couples the front wheels to the rear wheel brakes and that is handy on slopes.

Tire tread width adjustability varies all over the place. It doesn't seem to have rhyme or reason. Some models have it, and others do not. Front wheel width doesn't gain you much if any stability, rear wheel width makes a huge difference. Wider lower profile tires help even more. I find that compacts rarely have many options for changing width, while some utility size tractors have a lot of adjustability. Interestingly, I see older models with built in width adjustability more often than on newer models.

Or maybe I'm reading too much into the width thing. After all, you have been using the 2wd Ford 4100 apparently successfully; what is is that you would like for a new tractor to do better or differently? Hmm....does your Ford have the optional adjustable rear wheel width? That was common in the Ford's era...
rScotty

Do you prefer those larger utility plus size machines? Do you need that power? Most compact tractors will be half the weight or the Ford or NH, and although closer to the ground their wheelbase is narrower and less adjustable. So the sidehill stability is not much different. Compacts also don't tend to have nearly the 3pt power or the adjustability and features that a utility size tractor has

- To be honest not sure if I need the power but it doesnt hurt having it!! I have driven a few compact tractors and find them awesome to use. I maybe think a compact would be more suitable once the house is built, landscaping done and bush cleared. I plan on one day buying a brand new compact to go in the garage. I think the idea of a big tractor being able to do anything attracts me for the development of land side of things.

For even a mild slope I have found 4wd very useful. Not just for traction, but for braking as well. 4wd couples the front wheels to the rear wheel brakes and that is handy on slopes.

-100% agree - The weather here is unpredictable and I have gotten myself into some hairy situations with lack of traction.

Tire tread width adjustability varies all over the place. It doesn't seem to have rhyme or reason. Some models have it, and others do not. Front wheel width doesn't gain you much if any stability, rear wheel width makes a huge difference. Wider lower profile tires help even more. I find that compacts rarely have many options for changing width, while some utility size tractors have a lot of adjustability. Interestingly, I see older models with built in width adjustability more often than on newer models.

Or maybe I'm reading too much into the width thing. After all, you have been using the 2wd Ford 4100 apparently successfully; what is is that you would like for a new tractor to do better or differently? Hmm....does your Ford have the optional adjustable rear wheel width? That was common in the Ford's era...

- Rear tyre width is maxed out on the 4100 and tyres filled, I dont think there is much more I can gain traction wise

Colorado91 · Apr 15, 2020

buickanddeere said:
a "large" 4WD tractor and a dedicated lawn tractor or zero turn mower to cut the grass. Installing radial ATV tires on lawn tractors and zero turns usually takes care of traction problems . Without tearing up the lawn. If the problem weeks are sprayed with a mix such as roundup and 24D. They will be killed to the roots. Is this weed growing from seed ?

What is your idea of Large? I think a zero turn will be on the buy list when the house gets built but for now one machine is enough.

The gorse weed started off as 3 acres of dense bush - in some places 4 metres high. We have sprayed / flail mulched it enough to the point were we are maintaining regrowth. Hopefully a couple more years of spraying and no more. The neighbours regularly burn their gorse in piles which I think may contribute to our problem (regrowth from seeding when burnt off)