IH 46 Knotter not releasing

[grovestead]

Caveat, I'm very new to this. I have baled about 400 bales in total over the past 2 years. I continue to have problems with the inside knotter on my IH 46 baler. About every 6-10th bale, the inside string breaks and when I check it out its almost always the same problem: multiple knots at the billhooks. I have to use a needle nose to pull out the knots and rethread the needle. Then it works again for several bales.

I am continuing to dial in settings like string tension, and polishing the billhooks. But its very hard to "test" my repairs because I have to wait for another baling to try it out.

Any thoughts about multiple knots or the inside billhooks not releasing?

Thanks!

 

[zzvyb6]

I will suggest that the wiper arm scraper is worn enough to miss a billhook release. Usually an easy fix: The arm is malleable steel so you can simply bend it. The book calls for the wiper to actually scrape the billhook. I use two Crescent wrenches to get this done. One on the arm flat and the other on the first wrenche's blade. This step is actually where the knot is completed. While the knotter is flipped up to inspect it, jiggle the wiper arm to feel if the shaft bearings are worn out. Maybe that's why you get a few good ones and then, boom.

 

[grovestead]

I will suggest that the wiper arm scraper is worn enough to miss a billhook release. Usually an easy fix: The arm is malleable steel so you can simply bend it. The book calls for the wiper to actually scrape the billhook. I use two Crescent wrenches to get this done. One on the arm flat and the other on the first wrenche's blade. This step is actually where the knot is completed. While the knotter is flipped up to inspect it, jiggle the wiper arm to feel if the shaft bearings are worn out. Maybe that's why you get a few good ones and then, boom.

Thanks.

Could someone walk me through flipping open the knotter unit? I've seen it up on videos but don't know how to do it.

 

[zzvyb6]

Post a picture of the knotter frame taken from the back.

 

[zzvyb6]

Post a picture of the knotter frame taken from the back.

 

[grovestead]

Post a picture of the knotter frame taken from the back.

 

[grovestead]

Post a picture of the knotter frame taken from the back.

Do you have any suggestions?

 

[grovestead]

I will suggest that the wiper arm scraper is worn enough to miss a billhook release. Usually an easy fix: The arm is malleable steel so you can simply bend it. The book calls for the wiper to actually scrape the billhook. I use two Crescent wrenches to get this done. One on the arm flat and the other on the first wrenche's blade. This step is actually where the knot is completed. While the knotter is flipped up to inspect it, jiggle the wiper arm to feel if the shaft bearings are worn out. Maybe that's why you get a few good ones and then, boom.

An update on this: I rotate the flywheel manually and noticed the inside billhook turns slightly ahead of the outside billhook. This means it rotates, opens, shuts just slightly ahead of the other one. At PTO speed the difference would be almost nil, but still it is a difference between the two and it might account for having knot-releasing issues only with the inside billhook.

I have no idea how to adjust this.

Thanks,

 

[zzvyb6]

The billhooks start to turn when a special gear with only a few teeth on it starts to turn at the end of the knotter cycle. If there is lash or a broken tooth, one will be late.

But, you say it only occasionally misses a tie, so focus on the wiper arm swiping the knot off the billhook first.

Watch this video first. Small Square Baler Knotter - YouTube

Then roll the input over by hand and watch the tying operation on yours. I suggest you empty the baler of hay completely first. Pay attention to the wiper arm movement. stop the input when the wiper is in the middle of the billhook.

On most knotters, there is a frame which flips up for service when you remove a bolt. As you watch the movements on you baler, pay attention to BOTH knotters. with the goal being to duplicate the good one's actions on the bad ones.

There are quite a few IH baler fixing videos on youtube, too.

 

[grovestead]

The billhooks start to turn when a special gear with only a few teeth on it starts to turn at the end of the knotter cycle. If there is lash or a broken tooth, one will be late.

But, you say it only occasionally misses a tie, so focus on the wiper arm swiping the knot off the billhook first.

Watch this video first. Small Square Baler Knotter - YouTube

Then roll the input over by hand and watch the tying operation on yours. I suggest you empty the baler of hay completely first. Pay attention to the wiper arm movement. stop the input when the wiper is in the middle of the billhook.

On most knotters, there is a frame which flips up for service when you remove a bolt. As you watch the movements on you baler, pay attention to BOTH knotters. with the goal being to duplicate the good one's actions on the bad ones.

There are quite a few IH baler fixing videos on youtube, too.

Thank you for the info .. However, I don't see anything that resembles a wiper arm on either side -- the bill hook rotates 360 degrees while open which must be the "release" mechanism. I read on other forums that the McCormick/IH balers do not have wiper arms like the JD.

 

[slantsix]

Thank you for the info .. However, I don't see anything that resembles a wiper arm on either side -- the bill hook rotates 360 degrees while open which must be the "release" mechanism. I read on other forums that the McCormick/IH balers do not have wiper arms like the JD.

My dad had a 46 baler when I was a kid (he sold it some 30 years ago). The knotters are notoriously finicky. I remember after he purchased it the dealer had to make several visits to get it properly tuned. Ultimately the dealership baler guru ended up riding on the frame as dad baled so he could observe and tweak the operation. That said once he got them working the knotters provided years of relatively trouble free service.

I would suggest tracking down a service manual, and perhaps speaking to someone at your local CNH dealership for tips (preferably from a crusty veteran)

One thing I do remember is that twine choice was very important. Synthetic twine always caused problems.

For diagnostic purposes you can always break open bales and hand feed the pickup to allow you to work on the machine in the off season.

 

[grovestead]

Well -- some more details to report. I baled the first cutting yesterday. After about 15 bales the knotter problems went away (they did not go away in previous years). That makes me think the problem was related to rust/wear and not timing.

I continued to have problems with strings breaking, however. I tried toying with twine tension, chute compression, etc but it was fairly unpredictable. What are some other items to check for why twine would break?

Thanks

 

[slantsix]

Well -- some more details to report. I baled the first cutting yesterday. After about 15 bales the knotter problems went away (they did not go away in previous years). That makes me think the problem was related to rust/wear and not timing.

I continued to have problems with strings breaking, however. I tried toying with twine tension, chute compression, etc but it was fairly unpredictable. What are some other items to check for why twine would break?

Thanks

Does your baler have a thrower? The first (from the bale's POV) set of rollers should have grooves aligned with the bale twines on the bale. If these got swapped out over the years with the wrong rollers the rollers they will chew on the strings and cause breakage. For a similar reason this baler does not like really long bales. Set the bale length fairly short so the thrower can get rid of the bales quickly.

 

[zzvyb6]

Does your baler have a thrower? The first (from the bale's POV) set of rollers should have grooves aligned with the bale twines on the bale. If these got swapped out over the years with the wrong rollers the rollers they will chew on the strings and cause breakage. For a similar reason this baler does not like really long bales. Set the bale length fairly short so the thrower can get rid of the bales quickly.

Except that the twine is breakinf because the knots are stuck on the billhook.

Watch this video (study the slow motion segment):

International Harvester 46 knotter - YouTube

Th consider fine polishing the billhook(s) to help ensure the knots slide off like they are supposed to. How heavy are your bales. If they are too light, the twine won't follow the exiting bale. it just bounces back. The knot has to be yanked off the billhook before another tie is initiated.

 

[grovestead]

Another possibility -- i looks like the twine is not cutting sharply on the inside knotter. The ends look more torn than cut.

Could this knotter problem of not releasing be caused by dull knives?

 

[5030]

On most balers the knives are easily removeable and a light stoning at the correct angle will renew the edge, I stone my knives every year and I keep my knotters clean and free from chaff. They get blown off regularly (I use a battery powered leaf blower in the field) and after every bailing session, they get greased along with the entire baler. Maintenance is everything and clean knotters work much better and miss less. You need to remove the chaff and grease, looks to me like all your greaseable points are dry.

 

[grovestead]

On most balers the knives are easily removeable and a light stoning at the correct angle will renew the edge, I stone my knives every year and I keep my knotters clean and free from chaff. They get blown off regularly (I use a battery powered leaf blower in the field) and after every bailing session, they get greased along with the entire baler. Maintenance is everything and clean knotters work much better and miss less. You need to remove the chaff and grease, looks to me like all your greaseable points are dry.

Everything is well greased. I also blow off the chaff with air compressors. But I've never sharpened or replaced the knives.

 

[Sonny580]

The twine knives are critical on these-----dad used to file them every few loads and also the little groove that gets cut in the metal will not let the knot release. -- As stated these 46's were NOT one of IH's better machines ---- 45's were even worse.----we had several of them for junk but dad always found enough parts to make one that worked fairly good for our use. We also had an old IH 50-T and it did a real good job on the ties ---- In later years dad moved up to an NH 66 and wished he would have did so years earlier.

 

[5030]

The twine knives are critical on these-----dad used to file them every few loads and also the little groove that gets cut in the metal will not let the knot release. -- As stated these 46's were NOT one of IH's better machines ---- 45's were even worse.----we had several of them for junk but dad always found enough parts to make one that worked fairly good for our use. We also had an old IH 50-T and it did a real good job on the ties ---- In later years dad moved up to an NH 66 and wished he would have did so years earlier.

Glad I have a 575 high capacity...lol I never 'file' my twine knives, always use a whetstone. Same with my twine/net round baler.

Other than coming there in person and diagnosing the issue and repairing it, Internet cures will always be tenuous. Knotters are hands on items. Hands on and knowledge is paramount and no, I'm not coming there.