What mig to get for aluminum??

[5030]

The only difference I can see between yours and theirs is you have an office and I presume a dock for shipping containers and a warehouse here theirs and yours are basically identical and I see Harbor Freight now has a look alike to yours (Titanium) and it's exactly the same pismuckle green yours is, only difference I can see is the asking price, HF whips you like a bad dream. What I find interesting is the HF units get outstanding reviews from independent reviewers too. Yours, not so much unless it's one of your customers, never read anything independent about your stuff.

Yours and theirs share one important fact, they are both oriental in manufacture. If I was to buy a Chinese built machine, I'd be buying on price but then I'm not in the market. My Lincoln's and Esab's are just peach with me. Never got into pismuckle green either.

 

[5030]

About Banggood First time I seen this website, wonder how hard it is to get the consumables for a spool gun on there........

I've purchased from Banggood in the past without issue. I get a lot of my drone parts from them.

 

[5030]

As a friend of mine says; You boys shoppin way too far down Retail Road.

Spoolguns are CHEAP and readily available to be delivered to your door.
Spool Gun Gas Shielded Welding Gun Push Pull Aluminum Torch with 3M Cable - US$77.8

I'd say their 'retail road' is close to falling off a cliff...

 

[Mark @ Everlast]

The only difference I can see between yours and theirs is you have an office and I presume a dock for shipping containers and a warehouse here theirs and yours are basically identical and I see Harbor Freight now has a look alike to yours (Titanium) and it's exactly the same pismuckle green yours is, only difference I can see is the asking price, HF whips you like a bad dream. What I find interesting is the HF units get outstanding reviews from independent reviewers too. Yours, not so much unless it's one of your customers, never read anything independent about your stuff.

Yours and theirs share one important fact, they are both oriental in manufacture. If I was to buy a Chinese built machine, I'd be buying on price but then I'm not in the market. My Lincoln's and Esab's are just peach with me. Never got into pismuckle green either.

No.
The difference is that they are made in a substandard factory. Not in the original factory that makes them for us, Miller and others.

5030, since you've stepped into this mess, you are showing ignorance. HF has control and even deletes bad reviews. That's common knowledge. Go to Amazon, or Home Depot. We have no control over reviews there. Read independently on HF. A 90 day warranty? Sure. A one year warranty? Sure. I have had many new customers from those units when customers got disillusioned and needed support parts, and even a well performing welder. I've had customers call me back up to thank me because the difference was night and day in performance.

HF is making stuff look like snap on too. They will paint anything the color of the rainbow. No, our units are NOT made in HF factories. They do not have the same manufacturing standards. Some are mosfet designs and are much cheaper, and using non name brand components in the electronics. They are not the same design, and offer far fewer features than ours in most of the cases. And when compared apples to apples, we still beat them on similarly equipped machines. They have a curious way of comparing one of their machines to one of ours, and they aren't even close to the same features. But that is their thing. I have HF product. I'm in their stores more than I like to admit. But there is a serious difference in how they are built, supported, and hold up.

We've offered a 5 year warranty since 2008. If we didn't stand behind it, we wouldn't be around, I can assure you.

They are NOT identical, not even close. Not the same factory. Not the same design. 90 days versus 5 years. Yeah. I've replaced more than one 90 day failure with an Everlast.

Even HF was sued by Lincoln and had to pull their stuff from the market...because people were being told this sort of crap from HF, even advertising in fliers the units with the same colors to confuse and deceive the customer.

Current ESAB is made in the same factory as some of ours have been. Look it up. Lincoln, well, we wave to them as our paths sometimes cross in the strangest places over in China.

 

[Oldpath05]

Yep. Customers are buying them and getting mad because we don't support after market parts or pieces or make adapters to fit this junk. They can look a like, but how they operate, with voltage on the motor, and potentiometer are all different. Plus any damage they cause to the circuitry is on you. I wouldn't touch them myself. There is only one factory in China making the original stuff that Miller, Everlast and a few others use. This ain't it. Did anyone notice that this gun does not have a detacheable spool?

What you have to do, is unwind wire from another spool onto this spool manually... hopefully get it so it doesn't get crammed all up on the spool. Its a night mare. We've looked at it before, or a version of it, possibly from another factory, and even tried to carry it back in the end of 2008. Its the most aggravation you can get for 76.00. Too far down the retail road? lol

That was quite a customer story, I cant see myself calling three times in a different voice, almost comical. I agree on getting a spool-gun that replacement parts can be obtained and get some company support. The spool-gun for my Miller-matic 211 is between $3&400.00, what little aluminum welding I do I'd first try a plastic liner. I dont suppose you supply plastic liners in mig guns for your brand?

 

[Mark @ Everlast]

That was quite a customer story, I cant see myself calling three times in a different voice, almost comical. I agree on getting a spool-gun that replacement parts can be obtained and get some company support. The spool-gun for my Miller-matic 211 is between $3&400.00, what little aluminum welding I do I'd first try a plastic liner. I dont suppose you supply plastic liners in mig guns for your brand?

It's happened before. Customer calls back and recognizes its someone they talked to before and hang up. Usually on special cases, we'll send a memo to other members of the team they are likely to speak to to bring them up to speed on the customer.

Yes, we sell both the U drive rolls and ptfe/poly liner for all our MIG guns just for feeding aluminum. It's an acceptable solution for many, many customers. Spool guns are for reach. 10 ft or under, the standard guns do a good job at feeding the wire. The reports of nightmares with feeding like this are with other brands that don't support the liners, U grooves, or just plain don't want people to know this is a solution, so don't publicize what they need.

If I didn't need a 25ft reach, this is the solution I'd use (and do). I have both.

Our Power i-MIG 253DPi, even comes with an extra ptfe liner and extra drive rolls. Even though this unit will support both a spool gun (Parker DSP360) and a push pull gun (Parker SG360A).
I've keep tabs on the customers that I sell these units to. Many, even though they get the push pull, end up using the poly liner and short gun for table and stand work. Many of the body shops I sell to choose to start with the standard gun and liner and realize it is all they need.

 

[dragoneggs]

On the subject of Chinese factories. Like anything, anywhere, you generally get what you pay for. US companies that are sourcing the parts, assemblies, or finished product specify and control the quality of materials and the workmanship. Like anywhere the contracted companies do the minimum to meet their commitment to make as much profit as possible. There is plenty of high quality product coming out of China (and a lot of junk too). Chinese labor is less than US and 'we' go to China to try to build something of similar quality for less cost. Problem is that if you put in the necessary QA from material sourcing all the way through assembly, testing, packaging, and then shipping, the price for a product with similar features and quality level is not much less. Take the iPhone for example, very high quality product built in China but not cheap because of the rigor of QA instituted.

Many US companies try to cut corners tapping on the lower labor costs in China only to find out they spend more in policing the build to achieve the same standard they expect. One reason manufacturing is coming back to the US for things other than disposable items.

 

[user.69169]

Well, Markiemouth is right on his game today.

His green is almost JohnDeer Green and you should pay him more because he has an office...

Markie keeps workin at it and I might just look into his operation. He certainly has a fine reputation, like he strained it thru a paint strainer all by himself.

 

[Mark @ Everlast]

You know, let's just cut to the chase. There are plenty of detractors from our brand. Many have motivations that aren't exactly pure. One of the biggest I've seen is that people can't stand that they over spent on their other brand and don't want other people to get one up on them by saving money. They can't admit it to themselves, so they attack the brand rather than owning it. This is a real issue and a common one when you start stripping away the layers. And others are narcissistic and can't stand for anyone else to have an opinion or experience that contradicts their own. So they go on a personal crusade. And for the bonafide complaints that we have, we do not have loads of dealers, and our business model is different. But that difference saves you money and we've doubled down our efforts since 2010 to offer better and better service to offset that issue. Now, with that said, our product isn't for those that insist on a brick and mortar dealer on every block. But again, they can't stand to see anyone succeed and think we are cutting corners somehow by not paying "our dues". They can't stand those who buy from us either for that matter. The try to insist everyone buy from a brick and mortar dealer since they did. It goes back to that overpaying thing. Sort of like the deeply in debt, SnapOn only guys who look down on the mechanics that roll in with no debt but drawers full of craftsman or other name tools, all paid for.
And yes, you will see a few complaints now and then. Why? Because we deal online. Where do online buyers go to complain about a problem? Online. That's where. Where do people go to complain about their dealer? To their dealer, and then online if it isn't resolved. Now, if you look at other brands, name brand ones, you will find plenty of complaints about other brand products. Those "don't go green" detractors fail to point that out and try to kick dirt over that inconvenient fact when you aren't looking.

Now to the question of the spool gun etc. that has been stirred up. I've taken the liberty of pulling comparative pictures from both our site and from this "bang good?" site.

I've found 10 (actually more, but the page was getting too cluttered) sample differences. I've tried to make a fair comparison here. Bang Good on left. Everlast one right.

1) Start by looking at the button and its shape. The smooth, longer ergonomic shape of the release button makes things just a little nicer on the Everlast.
2) The aforementioned spool holder versus the Rewind spool of the Bang good. Also note the curious lack of the jump liner on the bang good. You can see the PTFE jump liner on the Everlast. This helps feeding. Equal?
3) Strain relief. Look at the Heavy duty spring strain relief on the Everlast compared to a light rubber outer boot on the bang good. I can tell you from experience that these rubber boots split with age.
4) Gun barrel. The gun barrel on the Everlast screws on and off. The Bang good does not. And it is shorter than the Everlast. The Everlast can support a swan neck. Bang Good? Who knows?
5) The thumb screw on the bang good presumably holds the cover down. The Everlast clips down and is held in place by the clipping mechanism.
6) The handle capture nut on the Everlast seats and meets the handle. The bang good has a measureable gap and who knows why?
7) The gas line and nozzle. The Everlast features a larger, heavier gas nipple, which means it allows more air flow due to a larger internal diameter and offers better sealing with the more pronounced ridges. The gas lines are different too. The Everlast IIRC is a PVC type. The bang good looks like vacuum line used on automobiles.
8) The gas nozzles are visibly different, the Everlast with a taper, the bang good is straight. Who knows if they are interchangeable or the same quality?
9) The trigger "bump" gard. The Everlast extends much further out to help prevent accidental triggering of the spool and gun. Anyone like to get accidentally flashed when your spool gun slips and catches on the edge of the table on the trigger?
10) The drive rolls. Look at how the Everlast drive rolls are held neatly aligned and captured. Bang Good? Nah...we don't need that.

And the final remark about it is that this is listed as a 3 meter gun. Well, that is 10 ft, or roughly in that neighbor hood. Our guns are actually 25 ft. Gun cable costs money. Wonder why that guy was trying to add cable to his online purchase? This is why he was trying to get "parts" and support to extend his gun to "25 ft." You'll also find that the gun cable is not the quality of the Everlast. There is a big difference up close.

Now, I can go on and talk the drive motor quality difference etc but I won't. But I can tell you the process we go through when we are selecting components and accessories for our units. You can see something and assume it is from the same place or similar. But it isn't.





8) T

 

[user.69169]

Well I do have to credit you for being salesman enough to get right up front with the reality that the Banggood gun is probably a superior purchase for a man with a single use situation. After all, this man isn't setting up a production line moving a few hundred pounds of aluminum a shift, and he does have one of the finest MIG power units made.

Who knows what te outcome will eventually be? He might take a liking to door production, perhaps invent the first composite door, aluminum frame with fiberglass skin and insulation any and every farmer can build on the farm. Then maybe you can sell somebody your overly complex overpriced units and some of your high priced wire too.

Just think how many green machines you'll move when he puts in robots.