just when you thought you knew what stupid was

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   / just when you thought you knew what stupid was #581  
   / just when you thought you knew what stupid was #582  
   / just when you thought you knew what stupid was #584  
Per the title of the thread, this takes the cake over the current discussion...

JUST IN: Police identify suspect in brazen Trussville Home Depot theft | The Trussville Tribune

I'm amazed at the driving skill while in home depot, and I can't help but wonder why a leaf blower and a home dehumdifier:laughing:

Wow.

I agree... if you're gonna steal something, make it worth the time you're gonna possibly be in jail for.

20 Weird Things You Can Really Buy at Home Depot | Family Handyman
 
   / just when you thought you knew what stupid was #586  
Lol, because a mayor says it doesn’t mean it’ll happen.

Show me the codified law I’m refusing to uphold? You can’t because it doesn’t exist.

Again, the LAW says the GOVERNOR can issue a MANDATE, which they do. So here's the LAW that gives the GOVERNOR the AUTHORITY to do it.

Gov. Lee Grants Mayors in 89 Counties Authority to Issue COVID-19 Mask Requirements
Friday, July 03, 2020 | 05:45pm
NASHVILLE, Tenn. – Today, Tennessee Governor Bill Lee signed Executive Order 54 to grant county mayors in 89 counties the authority to issue local mask requirements in the event of a significant rise in COVID-19 cases.

“While our densely populated urban areas continue to have the highest COVID-19 case rates, our local governments expressed a need for greater flexibility in addressing a rise in cases and that includes setting stronger expectations around masks,” said Gov. Lee. “This targeted approach ensures we protect both lives and livelihoods and safely keep our economy open in Tennessee. We encourage every Tennessean across the state to use a face covering or mask, make sure to socially distance and wash hands frequently.”

The six counties with locally run health departments including Sullivan, Knox, Hamilton, Davidson, Madison and Shelby counties retain the existing authority to issue mask requirements as needed.

The full text of the order is listed below:

AN ORDER PROVIDING LOCAL GOVERNMENTS WITH AUTHORITY CONCERNING FACE COVERINGS

WHEREAS, Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) remains a threat to our citizens, our healthcare systems, and our economy, and each Tennessean should continue to protect themselves and others by following applicable health guidance from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and other leading medical experts to slow the spread of this virus, including practicing social distancing, effective personal hygiene practices, and “wear[ing] cloth face coverings in public settings and when around people who don’t live in your household, especially when other social distancing measures are difficult to maintain”; and

WHEREAS, importantly, wearing a cloth face covering is a simple step that each Tennessean can take to slow the spread of the virus, which prevents having to take more drastic and disruptive measures for our economy and job market, like requiring the closure of businesses; and

WHEREAS, whether to require or recommend wearing a face covering may depend on the spread of COVID-19 or lack thereof in a particular community, which varies widely across the State, and local governments are therefore better positioned to make this decision based on the conditions in their communities; and

WHEREAS, in addition to the other powers granted by law, Tennessee Code Annotated, Section 58-2-107, provides, among other things, that during a state of emergency, the Governor is authorized to suspend laws and rules regarding the conduct of state business if necessary to cope with an emergency, utilize all available state and local resources needed to combat an emergency, and take measures concerning the conduct of civilians and the calling of public meetings and gatherings, among other things, as well as delegate such powers as the governor may deem prudent; and

WHEREAS, pursuant to this authority and the general emergency management powers of the Governor under law, the temporary suspension of selected state laws and rules and the other measures contained herein are necessary to facilitate the response to the ongoing effects of the emergency resulting from COVID-19.

NOW THEREFORE, I, Bill Lee, Governor of the State of Tennessee, by virtue of the power and authority vested in me by the Tennessee Constitution and other applicable law, do hereby declare a continuing state of emergency and major disaster in order to facilitate the response to COVID-19 and accordingly order the following:

1. Persons are urged to wear face coverings in public places. To reiterate Paragraph 5 of Executive Order No. 38 (as extended by Executive Order No. 50), in accordance with CDC guidance, persons, including employees or customers of businesses, are strongly urged to wear cloth face coverings or other similar coverings in public settings where being in close proximity to others is anticipated, and particularly where other social distancing measures are difficult to maintain at all times. Such cloth face coverings can be created from household items or made at home from common materials at low cost. Cloth face coverings should not be placed on young children under age 2, anyone who has trouble breathing, or anyone who is incapacitated or otherwise unable to remove the mask without assistance. Surgical masks and N-95 respirators should be reserved for health care workers and first responders.

2. Specific delegation of authority to issue orders concerning face coverings. Notwithstanding anything to the contrary in Paragraph 13.b. of Executive Order No. 38 (as extended by Executive Order No. 50, and as may be subsequently extended), county mayors in the 89 counties that do not have a locally run county health department shall have the authority to issue orders or measures requiring or recommending the wearing of face coverings within their jurisdictions, consistent with Paragraph 3 of this order.

3. Contents of local orders. Orders or measures issued by county mayors pursuant to this Order should be consistent with CDC guidance and may have such exemptions as deemed advisable, provided that, at a minimum, there shall be no requirement that a face covering be worn:

i. Within one’s residence or automobile, unless transporting others for hire;

ii. By a child twelve (12) years of age or younger;

iii. By someone who has trouble breathing due to an underlying health condition or another bona fide medical or health-related reason for not wearing a face covering;

iv. By someone who is incapacitated or otherwise unable to remove the cloth face covering without assistance;

v. While eating or drinking;

vi. While outdoors, unless the person cannot substantially maintain appropriate social distancing from others outside of the person’s household;

vii. While working under conditions where appropriate social distancing from others outside of the person’s household is substantially maintained;

viii. In situations in which wearing a face covering poses a safety or security risk;

ix. While in a house of worship unless required by that house of worship, but wearing a face covering in such locations is strongly encouraged; or

x. While in a voting site for the purpose of voting or administering an election, but wearing a face covering in such locations is strongly encouraged.

4. Suspension of laws that would limit application of this Order. Any law, order, rule, or regulation that would otherwise limit the enforceability of this Order is hereby suspended, pursuant to Tennessee Code Annotated, Section 58-2-107.

5. Nothing preempts or supersedes any authority of bodies in six counties with a locally run county health department. Nothing herein or in Paragraphs 5 or 13 of Executive Order No. 38 (as extended by Executive Order No. 50, and as may be subsequently extended) preempts or supersedes any existing authority, as provided by executive order, statute, charter, or otherwise, of a locally run county health department, board of health, official, or local legislative body, located in a county with a locally run county health department, to issue or enact orders, ordinances, rules, or law regarding face coverings to mitigate the spread of COVID-19. Executive Order No. 38 (as extended by Executive Order No. 50, and as may be subsequently extended) is hereby amended to the extent necessary to effectuate this Paragraph 5, which amendment shall survive expiration or termination of this Order.

6. Effect of Order. A local order promulgated under the authority delegated by this Order constitutes an order, rule, or regulation promulgated pursuant to Tennessee Code Annotated, Title 58, Chapter 2, Part 1, for purposes of Tennessee Code Annotated, Section 58-2-120.

7. Severability. If any provision of this Order or its application to any person or circumstance is held invalid, the invalidity does not affect other provisions or applications of this Order which can be given effect without the invalid provision or application, and to that end the provisions of this Order are declared to be severable.

8. Term and effective date. This Order shall be effective upon execution and shall remain in effect until 11:59 p.m., Central Daylight Time, on August 3, 2020.

IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have subscribed my signature and caused the Great Seal of the State of Tennessee to be affixed this 3rd day of July, 2020.
 
   / just when you thought you knew what stupid was #588  
   / just when you thought you knew what stupid was #589  
Ayup, read it several times (since the beginning of the issue) not a thing in that order that is enforceable by a street cop.

You seem to be having a disconnect. That order is not a codified law in PA. It is a gov mandate. We don’t enforce mandates.

I believe you have the disconnect somewhere.

When push comes to shove, local LEO's will have to enforce state mandates given time.

Kind laughable in a way... This same sheriff (Johnson of Alamance ounty) who doesn't mind a race track event does mind a protest on public grounds.

https://www.newsobserver.com/news/coronavirus/article243054951.html

The bigger question becomes how the police can enforce "codified laws" within that state that go against the Constitution of the United States but it's the LE's job to uphold the Constitution. Not saying it's right or wrong, but the way of the world in the US.
 
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   / just when you thought you knew what stupid was #590  
You said "We (the police) aren't and won't enforce such things." Yet we've seen numerous examples of police enforcing such things.
 
   / just when you thought you knew what stupid was #591  
I believe you have the disconnect somewhere.

When push comes to shove, local LEO's will have to enforce state mandates given time.

Kind laughable in a way... This same sheriff (Johnson of Alamance ounty) who doesn't mind a race track event does mind a protest on public grounds.

https://www.newsobserver.com/news/coronavirus/article243054951.html

The bigger question becomes how the police can enforce "codified laws" within that state that go against the Constitution of the United States but it's the LE's job to uphold the Constitution. Not saying it's right or wrong, but the way of the world in the US.

No disconnect here. I am firmly rooted in the US and state constitution along with the Oath I swore to uphold.

Push come to shove, a lot of things will happen. Enforcing mandates that are not codified laws, won’t be one of them.
 
   / just when you thought you knew what stupid was #592  
You said "We (the police) aren't and won't enforce such things." Yet we've seen numerous examples of police enforcing such things.

Where? I haven’t seen any (not being obtuse, I have seen none). And again, in the area I work in, and for that matter the state, we are not and will not enforce a mandate.
 
   / just when you thought you knew what stupid was #593  
I find it most interesting that the original post challenged the idea of not wearing a facial mask as "stupid". Extending the "stupidity" to the additional option of prohibiting masks in certain situations.
By association, "people who disdain mask wearing are therefore stupid people" (my words).

Yet, As witnessed in post 547 by DK35vince, Residents of Western PA is not a mask wearing group . I know there is not widespread support for mask wearing in the Dakotas either. Certainly no mandate.
Are all these people stupid? It's a big world....
 
   / just when you thought you knew what stupid was #595  
I believe you have the disconnect somewhere.

When push comes to shove, local LEO's will have to enforce state mandates given time.

Kind laughable in a way... This same sheriff (Johnson of Alamance ounty) who doesn't mind a race track event does mind a protest on public grounds.

https://www.newsobserver.com/news/coronavirus/article243054951.html

The bigger question becomes how the police can enforce "codified laws" within that state that go against the Constitution of the United States but it's the LE's job to uphold the Constitution. Not saying it's right or wrong, but the way of the world in the US.

Missed that part about the protest. An LEO, especially an administrator, should extend the same courtesy/respect/discretion to all citizens, even the ones he disagrees with.

The states rights v. Constitution issue is a whole other can of worms, and I agree.

The states that limit freedoms have their own constitutions that mirror the US one, yet still pull that crap.
 
   / just when you thought you knew what stupid was #596  
Just to be sure everyone is on the same page.

This is not a trivial statement extracted from the subsequent study.


Little is known about the infectiveness of asymptomatic patients. Our findings, given a recent report of SARS-CoV-2 transmission from an asymptomatic person to 4 family members,8 nevertheless offer biological plausibility to such reports of transmission by asymptomatic people. A previous study9 analyzing a small number of patients also reported that viral load of asymptomatic SARS-CoV-2 patients was as high as that of symptomatic patients. Although the high viral load we observed in asymptomatic patients raises a distinct possibility of a risk for transmission, our study was not designed to determine this. [end quote]

So many questions? I worry about those who profess to know the answers.

Again, all you are proving, is you don't understand how the progression of research and science works.

Let me explain it like this. Think of it as a puzzle. You have a bunch of people all working on the same puzzle. Everyone is trying to find a piece, and figure out how it fits into the bigger picture. It takes all of the pieces to see the entire picture (e.g., see the forest through the trees), as it is extremely rare to perform one study that suddenly identifies everything you need to know. If an individual like yourself continues to pursue your confirmation bias (as you have done again with this comment) without understanding the whole picture, then you arrive at erroneous conclusions, such as, "This puzzle piece doesn't fit in the place I'm trying to put it, so it must be a bad piece. Let's throw it out!"

Regarding asymptomatic/presymptomatic spread, there are two issues. 1) Transmission - does it jump from an asymptomatic person to another?, and 2) Viral load - how infectious are asymptomatic/presymptomatic people. That is, is asymptomatic transmission a rarity because they are less infectious (as the WHO was claiming), or is it just as likely to occur because they are just as infectious.

The article I quoted definitively answered the second question. They are just as infectious. That was their focus, and a key finding that up to that point was unknown. The research community already KNOWS that asymptomatic/presymptomatic transmission occurs, because it has been well documented. It just wasn't clear how likely that was relative to symptomatic transmission. By focusing solely on an accurate statement by the authors regarding their main research objective (infectivity versus transmission), and then making a judgement of it's utility based on a lack of understanding of the broader research field, you failed to dig deep enough to recognize that asymptomatic/presymptomatic transmission has already been shown to occur, here:

Evidence Supporting Transmission of Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome Coronavirus 2 While Presymptomatic or Asymptomatic (which gives a good overview of other articles showing the same thing)

and here:

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and here:

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMe2009758

Are you getting the point?

and here:

Presumed Asymptomatic Carrier Transmission of COVID-19 | Infectious Diseases | JAMA | JAMA Network

and here:

Screening of healthcare workers for SARS-CoV-2 highlights the role of asymptomatic carriage in COVID-19 transmission | eLife

And I could go on.


Finally, as you continue to post glib comments about science, such as that it's just observation, you again are highlighting your lack of understanding on the matter. Travel to the moon was not made possible by looking through a telescope and observing the moon. The theory of relativity was not developed by seeing how time could speed up and slow down. Scientists develop theories and hypotheses based on understanding the physical underpinnings of the phenomenon of interest. Then they seek to design experiments, to test, validate, and further advance those hypotheses. It's called the scientific method, and is usually taught in middle school science classes. But again, maybe that was one of those classes you thought was too boring to attend, and so skipped it.
 
   / just when you thought you knew what stupid was #597  
Again, all you are proving, is you don't understand how the progression of research and science works.

Let me explain it like this. Think of it as a puzzle. You have a bunch of people all working on the same puzzle. Everyone is trying to find a piece, and figure out how it fits into the bigger picture. It takes all of the pieces to see the entire picture (e.g., see the forest through the trees), as it is extremely rare to perform one study that suddenly identifies everything you need to know. If an individual like yourself continues to pursue your confirmation bias (as you have done again with this comment) without understanding the whole picture, then you arrive at erroneous conclusions, such as, "This puzzle piece doesn't fit in the place I'm trying to put it, so it must be a bad piece. Let's throw it out!"

Regarding asymptomatic/presymptomatic spread, there are two issues. 1) Transmission - does it jump from an asymptomatic person to another?, and 2) Viral load - how infectious are asymptomatic/presymptomatic people. That is, is asymptomatic transmission a rarity because they are less infectious (as the WHO was claiming), or is it just as likely to occur because they are just as infectious.

The article I quoted definitively answered the second question. They are just as infectious. That was their focus, and a key finding that up to that point was unknown. The research community already KNOWS that asymptomatic/presymptomatic transmission occurs, because it has been well documented. It just wasn't clear how likely that was relative to symptomatic transmission. By focusing solely on an accurate statement by the authors regarding their main research objective (infectivity versus transmission), and then making a judgement of it's utility based on a lack of understanding of the broader research field, you failed to dig deep enough to recognize that asymptomatic/presymptomatic transmission has already been shown to occur, here:

Evidence Supporting Transmission of Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome Coronavirus 2 While Presymptomatic or Asymptomatic (which gives a good overview of other articles showing the same thing)

and here:

Error - Cookies Turned Off

and here:

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMe2009758

Are you getting the point?

and here:

Presumed Asymptomatic Carrier Transmission of COVID-19 | Infectious Diseases | JAMA | JAMA Network

and here:

Screening of healthcare workers for SARS-CoV-2 highlights the role of asymptomatic carriage in COVID-19 transmission | eLife

And I could go on.


Finally, as you continue to post glib comments about science, such as that it's just observation, you again are highlighting your lack of understanding on the matter. Travel to the moon was not made possible by looking through a telescope and observing the moon. The theory of relativity was not developed by seeing how time could speed up and slow down. Scientists develop theories and hypotheses based on understanding the physical underpinnings of the phenomenon of interest. Then they seek to design experiments, to test, validate, and further advance those hypotheses. It's called the scientific method, and is usually taught in middle school science classes. But again, maybe that was one of those classes you thought was too boring to attend, and so skipped it.

You mean they actually teach something in school toady? I'll be.
 
   / just when you thought you knew what stupid was #599  
Again, all you are proving, is you don't understand how the progression of research and science works.

Finally, as you continue to post glib comments about science, such as that it's just observation, you again are highlighting your lack of understanding on the matter. Travel to the moon was not made possible by looking through a telescope and observing the moon. The theory of relativity was not developed by seeing how time could speed up and slow down. Scientists develop theories and hypotheses based on understanding the physical underpinnings of the phenomenon of interest. Then they seek to design experiments, to test, validate, and further advance those hypotheses. It's called the scientific method, and is usually taught in middle school science classes. But again, maybe that was one of those classes you thought was too boring to attend, and so skipped it.

Nah, You got it all wrong. I spent my career in science. Physics, light and optical phenomena.

I've observed how "scientist" stand behind their credentials , crafting their self image by the motto "publish or perish".

Pawning superiority behind the works of giants.

I got to do some pretty cool stuff. Caught neutrinos in scintillating slabs of quartz, Snagged gasses from the deepest parts of the ocean, Heck, My DNA is on Mars. Who'd a thunk...

Got tired of the cold fusion hype I guess.

It keeps coming back to those pesky Swedes. They aren't masking up.... Pretty much the same results as the others. At least a general observation shows as much.
 
   / just when you thought you knew what stupid was #600  
It keeps coming back to those pesky Swedes. They aren't masking up.... Pretty much the same results as the others. At least a general observation shows as much.

Really? 5-10 TIMES the per capita death rate of their neighboring Scandinavian countries is "pretty much the same result"?

So, to apply that to the US, if we were sitting at roughly 1-2 MILLION deaths (currently 170,000 plus) that wouldn't be a concern?

Maybe we just have a different definition of what acceptable is.
 
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