NX6010 suction side hydro leak

[YLee Kioti]

Justman777- thanks...this way I'll have an idea on how to approach the topic. Don't want them to feel attacked or antagonized.
Yeah Cody is a busy feller and Seth does a good job minding the front desk, parts and answering the phone.

Hopefully late Sep. shop work slacks up an bit I can trailer machine to them.
Have a cool weekend yah'll....(need a icon of the lil feller sweating!) :laughing:

 

[Threepoint]

Randy, that's a thought! I'd given some thought to the hydraulic fluid being the cause for a bit. I may just drain the entire thing and fill it with a different fluid and see what happens. That being said, I think YLee is using Mobile 424 in his and is still having the same issues. Hate to keep experimenting on my own dime, but it's still cheaper than loading it up and driving two hours to the dealer.

Replacing the fluid strikes me as an expensive experiment, given your tractor's so new. Especially since it still has the original fluid. Maybe ask your dealer what fluid it was delivered with?

Really sorry you're having the performance issues. It's got to be very frustrating. What would your dealer charge just to send a rollback for it, so that it then becomes his and Kioti's problem to resolve? My selling dealer is 100 miles from me and charges $250 total for pickup and re-delivery with his big rollback. By the time he pays his driver, and for fuel and wear and tear, he's not making any money on that. I like to do everything myself where I can, but even if my NX with its big Titan turf tires would fit on my trailer, which it won't, I'd still hire it done for that! :laughing:

 

[justman777]

Replacing the fluid strikes me as an expensive experiment, given your tractor's so new. Especially since it still has the original fluid. Maybe ask your dealer what fluid it was delivered with?

Really sorry you're having the performance issues. It's got to be very frustrating. What would your dealer charge just to send a rollback for it, so that it then becomes his and Kioti's problem to resolve? My selling dealer is 100 miles from me and charges $250 total for pickup and re-delivery with his big rollback. By the time he pays his driver, and for fuel and wear and tear, he's not making any money on that. I like to do everything myself where I can, but even if my NX with its big Titan turf tires would fit on my trailer, which it won't, I'd still hire it done for that! :laughing:

Well, that's a good thought! By the time you factor in the time, associated risk and hassle factor, it'd probably be worth it to have them come pick it up.

 

[justman777]

Replacing the fluid strikes me as an expensive experiment, given your tractor's so new. Especially since it still has the original fluid. Maybe ask your dealer what fluid it was delivered with?

Really sorry you're having the performance issues. It's got to be very frustrating. What would your dealer charge just to send a rollback for it, so that it then becomes his and Kioti's problem to resolve? My selling dealer is 100 miles from me and charges $250 total for pickup and re-delivery with his big rollback. By the time he pays his driver, and for fuel and wear and tear, he's not making any money on that. I like to do everything myself where I can, but even if my NX with its big Titan turf tires would fit on my trailer, which it won't, I'd still hire it done for that! :laughing:

Just for clarity, the fluid has been changed out. I bought the tractor used with 50 hours on it, and we tried to change out the filter housing at around 120 hours in an attempt to resolve the air infiltration issue. I'm not sure what was in there when we were changing out the filter, but we changed out the fluid when we attempted to swap out the filter housing. I suspect the fluid was changed for the 50 hour service as well. They used a house brand of hydraulic oil...not sure of the source.

 

[Threepoint]

Another issue is insurance when we do our own hauling. Dealer is fully insured against loss of cargo. Our personal insurance on the truck and the trailer covers against loss or damage to them, and third-party liability, but not loss /damage to the tractor. Absent specific coverage on the tractor, e.g. an inland marine policy, or a commercial business policy, that's a lot of risk to take with an expensive machine! I'll do it for local runs, but two hours each way is different.

Well, that's a good thought! By the time you factor in the time, associated risk and hassle factor, it'd probably be worth it to have them come pick it up.

 

[justman777]

Another issue is insurance when we do our own hauling. Dealer is fully insured against loss of cargo. Our personal insurance on the truck and the trailer covers against loss or damage to them, and third-party liability, but not loss /damage to the tractor. Absent specific coverage on the tractor, e.g. an inland marine policy, or a commercial business policy, that's a lot of risk to take with an expensive machine! I'll do it for local runs, but two hours each way is different.

Certainly worth investigating! I'll have to ask my insurance company what my policy covers when towing. Thanks for the info!

 

[justman777]

Certainly worth investigating! I'll have to ask my insurance company what my policy covers when towing. Thanks for the info!

As suspected, my policy covers liability if the trailer becomes detached from the truck, but not damage to the trailer or anything being hauled on the trailer.

 

[Overtaxed]

Well, another 50 hours or so on the machine. Situation seems "normal". I do have the fluid spraying sound, and I curse myself for not taking a video right after the filter housing was done. I don't THINK it was there, but I honestly cannot remember for sure. Darn it! Machine is 99% smooth (compared to 100% after the filter housing was just done). The 1%, when I first start the machine, if I move the FEL in the first 30 sec or so, I can get it to jump. After that, no more. However, it's still very warm here, and the issue absolutely gets worse in the cold, so we'll see what the next few months bring.

Eric, I'm not sure there's a new redesigned suction side hydro-filter assembly. I think it's just a new part...as in never used before...but possibly without some unknown defect.

That's my understanding as well. It's just a "new filter housing" not a new part number/redesigned part. If you're having trouble getting them, that's normal, it was backordered for a long time when I got mine, which said to me and the dealer "known issue" and that they are changing out a lot of filter housings unexpectedly. Not really a wear out part, with a fleet of NX's out there, you would only need a few in stock normally for people like Eric who find a way to get a stick/tree in that area and bend/break things. But if you run a bad batch of them, well.. Now your replacing 100's/1000's.

I'm really not sure what to make of it. I'm not sending it back to the dealer, the machine is working fine, I'd never even look for the problem if I hadn't had it so bad before. I still have years of warranty left, so I'm going to let it ride for now. I still have the clear suction side hose installed, so I can watch it and see if I start to get foam/coffee in there. Right now I just see an occasional bubble right at start up and then they generally disappear and settle out to give me pure "whiskey" in the line.

Really curious to see what happens with yours Eric (unless I missed it), your machine has it bad from the videos you shared, so I'll be really curious to see what you think after it's fixed. For me it was like a new tractor, smoother, no jumps, and honestly, a bit more powerful (because I was getting all the HP to the pumps instead of making coffee with HP).

Wish Kioti would issue a TSB that we could reference with this issue. They obviously know there's a problem (hence their instance in changing the housing before doing a pump replacement), so... Why no TSB?

 

[JimR]

The 1%, when I first start the machine, if I move the FEL in the first 30 sec or so, I can get it to jump. After that, no more. However, it's still very warm here, and the issue absolutely gets worse in the cold, so we'll see what the next few months bring.

My NX4510HST loader has always been a bit jerky after just starting up my tractor when it has been sitting overnight. I think the hydraulics leak down after sitting because I always leave the lever in the float position. You did use a clear hose to keep an eye o the fluid for bubbles. My fluid has been clear as can be.

 

[justman777]

Ok...going in reverse and being jerked around is killing me. I was trying to back up to my box blade, and just getting into position was a chore. I have to get this thing fixed... Oddly enough, I don't get the same behavior going forward, which makes me believe it may not be an air infusion issue. Could be something with the reverse potentiometer. I took a look at it tonight, and if it's where I think it is, it's going to be tough to get too. Think I'm up for another trip back to the dealer regardless.

To be clear, I'm still having the air issue...weird noises, gurgling, etc. But I'm not sure the issue with jerking in reverse is related. I tried reverse in link pedal and the hand throttle and there was no difference. I also tried calibrating the pedals a few times with no difference. I'm not entirely sure, but I'm thinking the only way to test the potentiometer is to connect it up to the computer and cycle it. Otherwise, you can use a multi-meter to probe the signal wire as someone else gradually presses the pedal and determine if the voltage coming off is in specs. Had to do that with my Duramax when my turbo van position sensor failed.

 

[YLee Kioti]

SO here is my update.
Had MLS valve replaced and the 3PH doesn't jump anymore.

The rear travel stutter was corrected with a download of software upgrade and calibration.
So rear travel is as smooth as forward direction.

I can now creep up under the oaks when cutting or along a fence line w/o worry of it stuttering and moving closer to objects then desired.

No issues of hydraulic foaming as far as dealer was concerned and told me he considered it normal. So, unless other issues crop up I'll not rile up my dealer needlessly. They have given me excellent support even when I'm in a lurch. They know I'm about 80 miles away so parts and service has been excellent.

Keep us posted justman777 on how your machine is progressing.

 

[justman777]

You bet. I haven't had much seat time in a while. So much going on right now!

 

[justman777]

It's been a while since I updated this thread, so figured I'd give it a go.

I took my tractor in to the dealer and they had it for close to two months. Unfortunately, they don't know what's going on with it. Good tech, and the dealer and tech seem like they want to help. Anyway, they decided to replace the pump as that's the only thing on the suction side that hadn't been replaced yet. We'd already replaced every single o-ring, the suction side filter housing, flexible tubing, clamps....everything except the metal tubing. So, after a bit of extended drama in dealing with Kioti support (or non-support, as it were), they got a pump and installed it for me and I went and picked it up.

Drum roll.....no change in how it behaves. I still get fluid aeration, stuttering in reverse, and a frequent noise in the HST that sounds like an impeller hitting an air pocket. No real performance issues, other than when I'm trying to back up to an implement with Reverse cutting in and out on me.

I changed hydro fluids today from the dealer supplied fluid to Mobile 424 in hopes the fluid was somehow causing the aeration. I captured a few videos of the reservoir with my snake camera to show what I'm getting. I apologize in advance for the camera orientation, the shakiness, and how dark the videos are. The camera I used wasn't terribly expensive, and I'm shoving it in a very dark hole.

The first video here shows the dealer fluid.

The second video here shows the Mobile 424.

Bottom line, the Mobile 424 didn't help. I'm not sure where the aeration is coming from at this point, but I know I want it fixed.

To be clear, my dealer has been great. All around good folks that are interested in doing the right thing. When were discussed the issue last, I asked them if they had contacted their Field Service Manager, and they weren't aware there was such a thing. So, I passed them the job description from the Kioti Careers web site, as well as the Linkdin profile of the regional Field Service Manager. Interestingly enough, the Field Service Manager's job description is about 90% travel, and they're supposed to deal with unresolved customer complaints. The dealer contacted them, and they're not traveling right now due to the virus. My last email to the dealer was to inform them that the issue still remains, and that I'd like to have the Field Service Manager come out and do some troubleshooting as soon as possible.

I like the HST, but that shuttle shift keeps looking better and better....

 

[justman777]

New video here. I start the tractor about 10 seconds into the video, and about 5 seconds after is when the aeration starts to come in. The hydro fluid doesn't show up in the foreground because the tractor is facing slightly downhill.

EDIT: I should have mentioned, there's no sound on the video.

 

[dusty3030]

I think it’s aerating down from the three point control down into the tank. Even at idle when you remove fill cap you can hear it spraying and can see the agitation.

 

[dusty3030]

And if you think about it it’s spraying down almost straight above where the suction line comes out of the bottom of the tank. If the stream straight down is introducing air it’s being sucked in and through the pump.

 

[LouNY]

Just for the heck of it have you tried overfilling it by 3 or 4 gallons?

 

[justman777]

Just for the heck of it have you tried overfilling it by 3 or 4 gallons?

Yes. That was early on....about 9 months ago. I filled it up to where it was coming out of the fill port. Got the same results.

 

[MinnesotaEric]

Seems to me there is a screen in the fitting at the three-point-housing/ rear-SCV-valve-stack on the hose that comes in from the power beyond port on the loader valve. You may want to pull that fitting out and inspect the screen for anything that could induce foaming.

Fluid wise, I'm using NAPA's J20C hydro-trans fluid. Kioti specs their hydro fluid between J20C and J20D and I cannot find a source for J20D (the cold weather spec hydro-trans fluid).

 

[justman777]

Seems to me there is a screen in the fitting at the three-point-housing/ rear-SCV-valve-stack on the hose that comes in from the power beyond port on the loader valve. You may want to pull that fitting out and inspect the screen for anything that could induce foaming.

Fluid wise, I'm using NAPA's J20C hydro-trans fluid. Kioti specs their hydro fluid between J20C and J20D and I cannot find a source for J20D (the cold weather spec hydro-trans fluid).

Any ideas about the screen that would induce foaming? Restrictions, or something else?