Inconsiderate drivers and tractor operators, bad mix...

[MossRoad]

That's beside the point...actually it's moot...
Depending on the market it could just rot...in other scenarios it could adversely effect the market and hurt the smaller hay farmers that actually need the income to survive...

There are many large land owners that ONLY produce hay to save on property taxes...they don't need the income and many just lease the land to actual farmers that do all the work...it's a big scam...they like to call themselves "farmers" but in reality they are just cheating the system via technicalities and loopholes...

Then that would apply to all that cash rent farmland to anyone, wouldn't it?

 

[Hay Dude]

I didn't bother reading the majority of the thread...but did anyone mention the number of folks that call themselves "farmers" who other than maybe a kitchen garden only grow grass and cut it for hay ONLY to keep their agriculture tax classification...they want to own large tracts but cut hay to keep from having to pay the premium in taxes for owning said tracts...?

Reprehensible. A loophole that should be closed.
I live on 3 acres, but farm about 500 for wealthy land owners and conservancies who know nothing about farming. I dont know what, if anything, they do with their tax loopholes. I just make hay on their property, run some cattle on another tract, and sell hay for the same price I sold it for in the 90s.

One thing I do know about owning large tracts of land in PA, you get an ACT 515 or 319 property tax rebate if your >10 acres of land is farmed as a field of hay, or cut with a mower as a field of grass. It’s the development rights you lose for the tax deferment. As far as I know, farming of the land not required.

 

[K5lwq]

I can think of a lot of other loopholes that would be much easier than hay. Maybe a bee hive or two? Plant a couple of trees for timber one day? Wonder why they would choose hay?

 

[5030]

I didn't bother reading the majority of the thread...but did anyone mention the number of folks that call themselves "farmers" who other than maybe a kitchen garden only grow grass and cut it for hay ONLY to keep their agriculture tax classification...they want to own large tracts but cut hay to keep from having to pay the premium in taxes for owning said tracts...?

Maybe you should (read all the posts). There are a number of us commenting that are NOT hobby farmers, I'm one. I have a sizable investment in equipment and yes, I'm incorporated, well, it's an LLC at any rate and yes I grow hay and harvest it and every bale is sold. In fact mine is usually sold before I even cut it. It's NOT a hobby. It's an income and yes, my ground is in PA116 which, here in Michigan is the reduced tax rate for AG ground and yes, I have to report all my data to the UDSA as well.

Why would I pay a residential rate on land with no houses on it? Makes no sense to me but then, it's a business, not a hobby.

You obviously know nothing about growing commercial forage for profit. Better keep mowing your lawn and be happy with that.

As usual, way off topic.

 

[Hay Dude]

I can think of a lot of other loopholes that would be much easier than hay. Maybe a bee hive or two? Plant a couple of trees for timber one day? Wonder why they would choose hay?

Yep, hay don’t pay......
You have to love it to do it. I also have cows, build garages, barns & homes and have a property maintenance business.

 

[Fuddy1952]

There are two sides to the ag/hay use also.
Years ago land in an area may be valued at, say, $1,000/acre. All is well until people move in from N.Y., California and pay $50,000/acre. Now the guy who had a small 40 acre place his tax assessment goes from $40K to $2Mil!!! His taxes go up proportionately.
Is he cheating the system by raising a few cows or hay? No way could he afford taxes on that high rate through no fault of his own.
Should he move?

 

[Hay Dude]

I seen people with large parcels of farm land get ready to sell out for millions only to have some jealous jerk off throw 10 bog turtles on a little of their wetland and then the parcel has to have a $100,000 wildlife study and get held up for a year.
Not much I haven’t seen. Dirty politics, jealousy, permits withheld, you name it. I’ve provided professional testimony in court cases several times.
Anyway, off topic.

 

[5030]

Reprehensible. A loophole that should be closed.
I live on 3 acres, but farm about 500 for wealthy land owners and conservancies who know nothing about farming. I dont know what, if anything, they do with their tax loopholes. I just make hay on their property, run some cattle on another tract, and sell hay for the same price I sold it for in the 90s.

One thing I do know about owning large tracts of land in PA, you get an ACT 515 or 319 property tax rebate if your >10 acres of land is farmed as a field of hay, or cut with a mower as a field of grass. It’s the development rights you lose for the tax deferment. As far as I know, farming of the land not required.

Maybe I should sub divide the farm and sell it to developers and take the ground out of production and pocket the money. The American way.

Don't believe I could have steers on 3 acres though. Might have an issue with my neighbors after the developers I sold the ground to build those 300 grand 'country estates' that city people want to move into but son't want the manure stink or the sound of farm equipment or anything country like but they want the 'rural' atmosphere.

Had that issue with a neighbor on a tract I rent. They didn't like me spreading cow manure, said the stink irritated them. Guess who won..... Under Michigan RTF, I have to incorporate manure within 48 hours of spreading, so long as the weather is conducive. Last time I did that field, I watched the weather and spread it in advance of a weeks worth of rain. I'm sure they enjoyed every minute of it. I know I did.

Not withstanding, none of that has anything to do with poor driving habits and moving AG equipment on secondary roads. People are in way to big of a hurry today. Still haven't figured out what the rush is all about.

We all get to die at some point, why rush that because of stupidity.

 

[/pine]

Maybe you should (read all the posts). There are a number of us commenting that are NOT hobby farmers, I'm one. I have a sizable investment in equipment and yes, I'm incorporated, well, it's an LLC at any rate and yes I grow hay and harvest it and every bale is sold. In fact mine is usually sold before I even cut it. It's NOT a hobby. It's an income and yes, my ground is in PA116 which, here in Michigan is the reduced tax rate for AG ground and yes, I have to report all my data to the UDSA as well.

Why would I pay a residential rate on land with no houses on it? Makes no sense to me but then, it's a business, not a hobby.

You obviously know nothing about growing commercial forage for profit. Better keep mowing your lawn and be happy with that.

As usual, way off topic.

LoL...you contradict yourself (as usual)....first you say I should read all the posts because many comments are from not "hobby farmers"...when the actual topic is "inconsiderate drivers and tractor operators" [sic]...and then you try to tell me that my posts are off topic...too funny...!

LoL...Just like I said...the percentage of farmers that are jerks and knuckleheads is the same as any other profession...too funny...!

 

[4570Man]

Maybe I should sub divide the farm and sell it to developers and take the ground out of production and pocket the money. The American way.

Don't believe I could have steers on 3 acres though. Might have an issue with my neighbors after the developers I sold the ground to build those 300 grand 'country estates' that city people want to move into but son't want the manure stink or the sound of farm equipment or anything country like but they want the 'rural' atmosphere.

Had that issue with a neighbor on a tract I rent. They didn't like me spreading cow manure, said the stink irritated them. Guess who won..... Under Michigan RTF, I have to incorporate manure within 48 hours of spreading, so long as the weather is conducive. Last time I did that field, I watched the weather and spread it in advance of a weeks worth of rain. I'm sure they enjoyed every minute of it. I know I did.

Not withstanding, none of that has anything to do with poor driving habits and moving AG equipment on secondary roads. People are in way to big of a hurry today. Still haven't figured out what the rush is all about.

We all get to die at some point, why rush that because of stupidity.

I’d love to have a farm to subdivide off. Finding land to build on is a huge problem here.

 

[5030]

Yep, hay don’t pay......
You have to love it to do it. I also have cows, build garages, barns & homes and have a property maintenance business.

Actually, in my case, it does pay and quite well, but it took years for me to get to where I am today plus all my equipment is paid off (for now). Next spring, probably not.

I get a bad rash when I get a new payment book.....

 

[K5lwq]

I have respect for all farmers no matter how much land they farm.

I myself am from a small farm, just shy of 16,000 acres. We raised a little hay, ran a few cows, raised a little rice, wheat, soybeans, cotton, corn and a little bit of peanuts. The rest was in timber. It was so easy I never understood why more people did not do it. All of this back then was 8 rows at a time. No big deal.

 

[5030]

I’d love to have a farm to subdivide off. Finding land to build on is a huge problem here.

Gotten plenty of offers, never took any of them. Out here where we are, utilities have yet to get here (except electricity). No city water, no piped in natural gas, no paved roads and a roadside mailbox that might get delivered to but might not. I suspect at some point in the not so distant future we will sell out. heck, I'm 70 and my wife is 69 so not all that much time left but so long as we can be productive we aren't going anywhere. Besides, I don't like assisted living or urban environments or people in general. All the farm stuff here is totally mechanized so as long as I can turn the key and hook up implements and hydraulics, I'm good to go.

I totally mechanized my hay operation. I only run round bales and I never haul them. I have one customer (been my customer for 7 years now) and he buys everything I make. He brings his semi trailers to the fields and I load the rounds on his trailers and he secures them and off they go. Biggest task I have is loading net in the baler and fueling and greasing the equipment and I have all winter to do maintenance. Keeps me out of the house and in the shop outta my wife's hair.

We own rental properties as well. Being a landlord is 2 times the grief. Have that down pretty well too. Have a rental agency I deal with and I contract 95% of the maintenance to a contractor I've known for years. I do the little stuff myself but that's it.

Told the wife that maybe we should sell everything and move to Jamaica and her comment was I'd never be happy with that and she's probably right.

 

[tduby]

Listen, I dont think Im high and mighty. I think Im a real humble, easy going person who obeys the law and is an excellent steward of the land I farm. Im simply trying to make the point that when a state makes a law, and a farmer complies with the law, like a farmer driving a tractor with duals on a 2 lane road, DONT BLAME THE FARMER. Its so simple, yet you persist in demonizing someone for obeying the law of the road. :laughing:
Don稚 like it? Vote for someone who wants all farm equipment to be 102 wide, stand on a street corner with a sign protesting over width AG equipment, but dont COMPLAIN about the farmer who is in compliance with the LAW. Go complain to the state.

You go ahead and try to replace Farmers food with fake processed crap from China.
Maybe some junk grown in a Petri dish in a lab. :laughing:

You keep talking about what a humble person you are I don稚 think you know what that word means. You can go on about how I知 電emonizing the poor humble American farmer but I simply pointed out that there are other sides to the story that farmers driving on roads at speeds and sizes that do create a hazard.
I won稚 waste my time complaining to legislators because as pointed out in here and something you refuse to accept most farms are large multi million dollar operations that spend more money than you will ever make lobbying the government to get their deals.

As to your last point laugh all you want about lab grown food will it happen in my life time I have no idea but it or something better will happen. I bet someone laughed at the first guy to plant a crop instead of just harvesting what was already growing. Like I said before people have been reducing the number of farmers since the dawn of time So please keep thinking you are a special person and if you didn稚 do your job millions of people would starve to death and we owe everything to you the poor humble farmer. If anything has been made clear in this pandemic that processing and transportation are the more important as the big corporate farms were able to produce far more than we consume.

 

[paulfun9]

And the locals, who were there first, must live by your rules. Most of the new outside people I know of are traveling on roads with a posted speed of 35 and doing 70+. We have one local road here between 2 highways that people use as a short cut. The locals on that road know the speed limit. The outsiders only see it as a short cut. At least 4 to 5 wrecks a week on this road. A few years ago a woman that had lived here for over 50 years slowed to turn into her drive and hit by a semi on this 2 lane country road doing over 65. She was killed.

My rules? Heck I don稚 set the speed limits or decide where stop signs go nor do I decide what side of the road we are to travel on but can for sure tell you that most who lived here as long as I and my family have are one of two.
Not able to do the speed limits that are posted and unable to stay on thier own lane or traveling above the posted speed limits and still unable to stay in thier own lane!
I really like the turning example as most here think thier turn signal is something to only be used after they jamb thier brake on and get halfway into thier driveway, then they wonder and complain about the cars that come up on them. Maybe if you use it correctly that wouldn稚 happen is always my answer. Seems funny to me that I have no issue with cars getting close as I leave the main road but then I use the turn signal long before I ever touch the breaks or even lighten up on the throttle.

 

[Redlands Okie]

No body is providing the whole package. Takes farmland, roads, transports, processing plants, retail outlets and some consumers. Keep in mind that every single one of those process require a place to move their products. Roads. Every one needs them and its more than a bit irritating having to deal with those in a rush and driving recklessly. Do not care what they are driving or where. Idiots come in all sizes and flavors it seems. Pain to deal with.


Have some courtesy and try to make someone’s day a bit easier instead of another pain to deal with.

 

[MossRoad]

 

[LouNY]

If we could spread half of the responses of this thread for fertilizer we wouldn't need to buy any for years.

 

[daugen]

If we could spread half of the responses of this thread for fertilizer we wouldn't need to buy any for years.

:thumbsup:
a little reduction in sarcasm and personal attacks would be good
Let's address the problem, not the poster...
it seems at some point all the intelligent or on topic posts are used up and then it becomes a mosh pit of folks upset with each other

I think the police are the good guys and I think the farmers are the good guys but sure understand others don't share my opinion
For most of us here we are "choir" being preached to, and we are sensible and respectful of folks driving farm equipment on the road.
They aren't out there for joy rides...

 

[ovrszd]

I have respect for all farmers no matter how much land they farm.

I myself am from a small farm, just shy of 16,000 acres. We raised a little hay, ran a few cows, raised a little rice, wheat, soybeans, cotton, corn and a little bit of peanuts. The rest was in timber. It was so easy I never understood why more people did not do it. All of this back then was 8 rows at a time. No big deal.

I too respect ALL farmers. Even the tiny ones like you.