Backhoe operation and stability

   / Backhoe operation and stability #1  

CJHL

New member
Joined
Nov 6, 2020
Messages
10
Location
erie pennsylvania
Tractor
Kubota B2650, John Deere 5103
So I am in the process of talking myself into buying a bh77 attachment for my kubota B2650. One thing that always seems to pop up in watching videos or reading reviews of backhoe attachments is the backhoe pulling the whole tractor when in use. On regular dedicated machines, the bucket is able to be completely curled and used as an anchor point in conjunction with the outriggers. I know doing this with a regular loader setup could result in bending the curl cylinders due to the force being put on them. So it does seem that most people just keep their front bucket level and lowered slightly to help out with stability. So an idea popped into my head to get some more gripping power out of the front loader without having to curl the bucket and potentially bend stuff. What if there was something like a toothbar on the bucket, but it was perpendicular to the cutting edge of the front bucket when it was in the level position. This would give you something to push down into the ground on the front while you are digging. I may be overthinking this, and I don't even have a backhoe yet, but would like to hear from people with experience using a backhoe on a compact tractor.
 
   / Backhoe operation and stability #2  
I just leave my bucket flat on the ground, front tires on the ground also......
 
   / Backhoe operation and stability #3  
Same here, just put even pressure on all points on the ground and set the parking brake firmly. When you dig hard ground, use technique to break up the soil by curling the bucket more than the boom if you can help it.
 
   / Backhoe operation and stability #4  
I have never really had an issue with my B4960A backhoe on my B2910, which is roughly the same size as you are considering.

Have I pulled the tractor a little on occasion? Yes. Has it ever been an issue? No.

Are you overthinking this? Maybe...:D

Edit: That being said, I finally decided I would rather find a mini excavator, same or just a bit more size. Last week I bought a used one in fairly good condition, for 20% more than a BH77 with subframe and bucket plus sales tax would have cost. Small Kubota, with enough life left in it to outlast me I suspect. (73 here, shooting for 100)...
 
   / Backhoe operation and stability #5  
Yes, it's almost unavoidable to pull the tractor a little bit, with ongoing backhoe operations. Eventually, as backhoe experience is gained and best practices applied, tractor movements are minimized. I never had any situation where I wanted to ridgedly anchor my front loader bucket with a tooth bar. And this year I have worked my backhoe reasonably hard, doing nine drainage culverts, a septic system and three in ground rain water collection tanks. My backhoe taught me alot about hydraulics this year.
 
   / Backhoe operation and stability #6  
What's the problem? If you treat your machine like a big construction TLB you might break something? Think of it as a learning experience. If you respect the machine and work within its abilities then you will likely have no problems. If you abuse it you will break it.
 
   / Backhoe operation and stability #7  
Put some teeth on your feet:

593651d1551224389-what-did-you-do-your-or_angle-jpg


Several of us with smaller machines have done variations on this. Just 1/2 or 3/4" angle iron on the bottom of the outriggers helps to dig into the ground and increase footing. There are rubber pads available if you need to work on concrete or blacktop. I still push and pull myself around some, but these help.
 
   / Backhoe operation and stability #8  
Put some teeth on your feet:

593651d1551224389-what-did-you-do-your-or_angle-jpg


Several of us with smaller machines have done variations on this. Just 1/2 or 3/4" angle iron on the bottom of the outriggers helps to dig into the ground and increase footing. There are rubber pads available if you need to work on concrete or blacktop. I still push and pull myself around some, but these help.

That is an option. But then you put the stresses on the outriggers. Think I would rather just slide things a little once in a while, rather than risk damage to something that is not designed for excessive horizontal stress. Just me maybe...

Edit: My outriggers already have tabs bend down on two edges perpendicular to the axis of the tractor. So if one's pads are flat like the blue backhoe in the picture, then probably the modification shown would not be an issue...
 
   / Backhoe operation and stability #9  
It's really better to shave dirt when digging. Take 2-3 inches of dirt over a longer pass. Don't try to hog a bucket full, in the length, or so of the bucket. With the right pitch/angle on the bucket, it will somewhat crumble the dirt, making it easier to empty the bucket. Making a longer pass like that may seem like your not digging much, but a bucket full over that area, is a bucket full, whether hogging with a short pass, or over a long one. And, may save you some time if you pack wetter clay like material, and time spent hammering the bucket to get it empty. That will probably cause more damage than anything.

Doing 2-3 functions at once smoothes operation. Crowd/boom up/curl bucket/swing all at once, can make it so smooth, it will hardly rock the tractor. It's not something you can pick up in an hour, or even a day. It takes hours of seat time, to get progressively faster, and more efficient. Wobble sticks make doing all of those functions at onceso much easier, than on the 4-stick Ford I cut my eye teeth on.

I've never operated a 3pt. hoe, but have operated more than several TLB's, and excavators for over 35 years. On TLB's, it mainly about adjusting engine RPM's, and feathering controls per your skill level. You have to get the feel of the hydraulics, for the amount of work load your doing. For a while, you'll be concentrating on what your hands are doing on the controls, to get said work accomplished. At some point down the road, you'll be concentrating on the boom, stick, and bucket, and it will be more like an extension of your arm, hand and wrist. You won't even really realize the movement of your hands, to orchestrate what you're doing. 99.9% of it is eye to hand coordination. Bottoming out cylindersat the end of it's stroke is probably harder on the machine, than anything you can do. It's going to happen, just learn your machines limitations on reach/stroke.

Excavators engines are pretty much ran at wide open throttle, and have electric, over hydraulic controls. Very easy on the arms, and wrists, just takes a bit to learn to feather the controls when you first get on a different machine, they work so easy. Again, at some point, you should be able to look at the bucket like an extension of your arm, and make the other functions do what you want, from point A, to point B, concentrating on it, instead of what your hands are doing on the controls. It just becomes second nature.
 
   / Backhoe operation and stability #10  
Will the toothed anchor attached to the bucket make it so you can't use the bucket without taking it off? I use my bucket a lot when I'm using the back hoe. The hoe will dig a trench or hole precisely and the loader will fill it it quickly. I have had 2 different tractors with hoe attachments and haven't found that I wished the bucket was more planted to the ground. You will always be able to move the tractor while digging but it's usually because you have hooked on to something you can't move anyway. Think of it as a slip clutch.
 

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