Looking at 2 way radios with my neighbors

[ruffdog]

Smoke signals may work during the day time. I think the people in the alps would use yodeling to communicate too.

 

[k0ua]

At the risk of "overcomplication," it might help if you consider posting about manufacturer claims of transmission distance capability when those figures are based on dBi. Maybe starting with: what is dBi? :laughing:

As you know talking about dBi or dBd ratings and claims of transmission range get complicated very quickly, and I think most peoples eyes have glazed over anyway from what I have posted. There isn't really much point to "baffling them with stuff". Yes I could likely put on at least a 2 hour seminar with the fallacy of posting transmission ranges for any equipment. It is totally insane. But the general public knows very little about radio wave propagation, or even of the term propagation when used in this context let along bringing isotropic radiators into the mix.

 

[Jstpssng]

As you know talking about dBi or dBd ratings and claims of transmission range get complicated very quickly, and I think most peoples eyes have glazed over anyway from what I have posted. There isn't really much point to "baffling them with stuff". Yes I could likely put on at least a 2 hour seminar with the fallacy of posting transmission ranges for any equipment. It is totally insane. But the general public knows very little about radio wave propagation, or even of the term propagation when used in this context let along bringing isotropic radiators into the mix.

How about a simple answer to the OP's question, considering you are as qualified than anybody else posting, and more knowledgeable than most of us who have given suggestions. Perhaps with a few comments giving your reasoning.
Personally I would go with the smoke signals mentioned above... very low tech and simple, as long as your matches don't get wet. :laughing:

 

[plowhog]

How about a simple answer to the OP's question,

Perhaps James has insight into the differences of GMRS and MURS. I don't.

But if you don't wish to tackle receiving a ham license, one of those is likely the best bet. I'd rule out FRS for the reason I posted before-- no external antenna capability. Deal-breaker for FRS in my opinion.

btw the MURS radios my friends bought had the capability to listen to certain ham frequencies, which might be of benefit in a disaster situation. But they won't transmit on those frequencies. My friend got excited about the Midland MURS models; however, something was limiting on those (can't remember what ...) and they went with a Chinese knock-off from Amazon instead.

 

[k0ua]

How about a simple answer to the OP's question, considering you are as qualified than anybody else posting, and more knowledgeable than most of us who have given suggestions. Perhaps with a few comments giving your reasoning.
Personally I would go with the smoke signals mentioned above... very low tech and simple, as long as your matches don't get wet. :laughing:

This article explains it fairly well. The differences between MURS, GMRS, FRS and CB I think I someone just came up and asked which of these system would be the best for what the OP is wanting as he has stated it, I would likely choose the MURS. Try to find a CTCSS tone that no one else is using and have at it. Whether a simple external antenna would be needed or not is up to the "original flat terrain" statement. If it is truly flat, maybe not, but a 1/4 wave vertical mounted just above the eves will beat the snot out of any "rubber ducky" handheld antenna ever invented. And apparently you can have MURS external antennas up to 60 feet high. Eve with a 2 watt talkie attached to them, and depending on what kind of antenna we are talking about (remember all of those variables I talked about when discussing ranges), it could be possible to communicate 30 or 40 miles point to point with 60 foot high antennas with a few dBi of gain. to another similar base stations over flat terrain, and maybe 10 or 15 miles from base to handheld even. Again the variables are endless in range discussions. Handhelds with rubber duckie antennas MAY, and I use that term loosely communicate that 2 miles handheld to handheld, but it might be spotty and depend on where you stand, or it could be perfect. And yes low tech solutions have some merit.

The Best Kept Secret in Radio Communication | ITS Tactical.

 

[Alien]

Back in the heyday a group of us in a large city all had UHF handhelds on 477 mHz. It was a large city and plenty of hills. At no time did any of us have poor communication. We used 1 watt and 1/2 a watt for the repeater but only used the repeater to talk to contacts in Brisbane 90 klm away. I still have a small pair of Electrophone uhf handhelds that work very well even though audio is not as good as a larger unit.
The handhelds back then were Emtron Aces. Lovely little things. I could access a repeater in the Bunya Mountains 50 klm away on 1/2 watt.

 

[Jstpssng]

Perhaps James has insight into the differences of GMRS and MURS. I don't.

But if you don't wish to tackle receiving a ham license, one of those is likely the best bet. I'd rule out FRS for the reason I posted before-- no external antenna capability. Deal-breaker for FRS in my opinion.

btw the MURS radios my friends bought had the capability to listen to certain ham frequencies, which might be of benefit in a disaster situation. But they won't transmit on those frequencies. My friend got excited about the Midland MURS models; however, something was limiting on those (can't remember what ...) and they went with a Chinese knock-off from Amazon instead.

This article explains it fairly well. The differences between MURS, GMRS, FRS and CB I think I someone just came up and asked which of these system would be the best for what the OP is wanting as he has stated it, I would likely choose the MURS. Try to find a CTCSS tone that no one else is using and have at it. Whether a simple external antenna would be needed or not is up to the "original flat terrain" statement. If it is truly flat, maybe not, but a 1/4 wave vertical mounted just above the eves will beat the snot out of any "rubber ducky" handheld antenna ever invented. And apparently you can have MURS external antennas up to 60 feet high. Eve with a 2 watt talkie attached to them, and depending on what kind of antenna we are talking about (remember all of those variables I talked about when discussing ranges), it could be possible to communicate 30 or 40 miles point to point with 60 foot high antennas with a few dBi of gain. to another similar base stations over flat terrain, and maybe 10 or 15 miles from base to handheld even. Again the variables are endless in range discussions. Handhelds with rubber duckie antennas MAY, and I use that term loosely communicate that 2 miles handheld to handheld, but it might be spotty and depend on where you stand, or it could be perfect. And yes low tech solutions have some merit.

The Best Kept Secret in Radio Communication | ITS Tactical.

I meant mine to be an honest question. Reading it again it might have sounded a bit rude but I did not intend it to be that way. Thanks to you both for answering my question despite that.

 

[dodge man]

I had to look up what radios we were using for surveying. I had never heard of the term MURS but that is what we used. I would agree that is probably a good choice.

 

[k0ua]

I had to look up what radios we were using for surveying. I had never heard of the term MURS but that is what we used. I would agree that is probably a good choice.

If it is any help, in the past these frequencies assigned to the so called MURS service were the old "color dot" channels. Maybe you have seen them referred to as blue dot, etc Some radios had the colored dot near the channel selection knob. "hey Roy, the loading dock is on the blue dot channel" etc.

 

[repete]

This article explains it fairly well. The differences between MURS, GMRS, FRS and CB I think I someone just came up and asked which of these system would be the best for what the OP is wanting as he has stated it, I would likely choose the MURS. Try to find a CTCSS tone that no one else is using and have at it. Whether a simple external antenna would be needed or not is up to the "original flat terrain" statement. If it is truly flat, maybe not, but a 1/4 wave vertical mounted just above the eves will beat the snot out of any "rubber ducky" handheld antenna ever invented. And apparently you can have MURS external antennas up to 60 feet high. Eve with a 2 watt talkie attached to them, and depending on what kind of antenna we are talking about (remember all of those variables I talked about when discussing ranges), it could be possible to communicate 30 or 40 miles point to point with 60 foot high antennas with a few dBi of gain. to another similar base stations over flat terrain, and maybe 10 or 15 miles from base to handheld even. Again the variables are endless in range discussions. Handhelds with rubber duckie antennas MAY, and I use that term loosely communicate that 2 miles handheld to handheld, but it might be spotty and depend on where you stand, or it could be perfect. And yes low tech solutions have some merit.

The Best Kept Secret in Radio Communication | ITS Tactical.

Nice explanation James.

There are a lot of variables when it comes to transmission capability. Last week I tested a Motorola XTS1500 against a Kenwood hand held. Both units were 5 watts so apples to apples as close as I could get. Standard antenna. 154.1900 Mhz. The terrain was hilly but as I looked from GPS points of transmit site to receiving tower it was line of sight and 16.6 miles apart. With hand held radios there are a lot of things that MUST work well to get a signal out. Rechargeable batteries are fine but they must be in good shape. One failed battery and you reduce your power output tremendously. Along that line, battery charge indicators are near worthless as they usually measure voltage but not an ability to produce power. If your concerns are having a radio during a disaster, you could use rechargeable but I would have a good set of alkaline batteries at the ready. Below is a test I did to convince firefighters (actually chiefs) that they should head the advice of our radio tech guy and just replace rechargeable batteries on a regular schedule even when testers and meters show they are good.

Battery test of portable radio battery - YouTube

I have had good success as you suggested James with a hand held using a 5/8 wave gain antenna on a 10' pole with a decent ground plane. I got maybe a three mile range with good receive of another hand held.

All of this is to say that you can get a lot of a hand held radio but you must have a good power supply and a decent antenna as James says.