Hydro or Shuttle for the long haul?

[Blue Mule]

In the end I think you'll be happy that you did. I've made more than one purchase that I wasn't as happy as I should have been. If you're not happy now chances are you will never be happy. Hopefully the new tractor will be a better fit.

Yeah I think the new one will be perfect. It's rated 40 horsepower and 32 at the PTO. That's a substantial increase...something like 88% increase in usable power at the PTO. That'll be perfect.

I'm not real familiar with the Workmaster series so decided to look up the specs for your current tractor compared to Kioti and Kubota which I'm more familiar with.

Was surprised that the NH went with a smaller engine, the Kioti and Kubota in this size have a 1.6L engine where the NH only has a 1.3L, also noticed that the PTO hp is a bit lower at 17 where the Kioti is 21.5 and the Kubota is 19 (although I question the Kioti specs).

It seems NH may have underspec'd the engine in Workmaster 25. For comparison the smaller Kubota LX2610 uses a 1.3 and has about 600lbs less base weight in what appears to be in a smaller frame size.

Is there any way you could demo another manufacturers comoarable 26hp model such as the L2501 or CK2610?

I have been thinking the same thing. This engine would be fine in a smaller tractor. But with 4,000 lbs. of weight to move around on 43" rear tires, it's just overwhelmed.

I'm going to hate having EGR on my tractor, along with a DPF. But I guess that's just life. My pickup has all those things too.

 

[rademamj1]

It would seem, then, when the tractor is not moving that the parasitic loss would be a small percentage of that when the tractor is moving under hydrostatic load. That makes it difficult for me to understand the PTO loss ratings as the PTO, whether mechanically or hydraulically engaged, isn't powered by the hydrostat. I'm assuming that at zero MPH the hydrostat pump is not moving any fluid but rather just maintaining standby pressure.
To put it in other terms, why would a hydrostat tractor not have the same power to drive a wood chipper, for instance, as would a gear/clutch drive tractor with the same engine? I don't mean to argue here, just trying to understand.

Edit: Perhaps the difference in PTO HP rating is a number is based on an average drawbar pull by the hydrostat where in actuality it can be much more or much less.

The PTO horsepower is the power available at the Power Takeoff at PTO 540 implement speed. Everything is measured at PTO 540.

Its calculated by taking:

Engine horsepower x PTO%=PTO horsepower

PTO%= PTO Speed/Engine RPM

The PTO% is basically the overall efficiency of the tractor. HST systems will inherently be less efficient at transferring power than the shuttle's mechanical system.

 

[npalen]

The hydrostat would not be an OC (Open Center) system but rather a CL (Closed Loop) system. There are some hydrostats that also supply a small volume of fluid to power auxiliary hydraulics but I don't think that is the case on most of CUT's.

 

[3gunr]

I must of got lucky or something because my 38 hp hydrohas lots of power . i can mow up a steep hill with a 6 ft cutter in 3 ft tall grass and brush and not bog down at all.Yes my other 2 shuttle tractors will do the same thing easily, but the ease of mowing around hundreds of cedars and locusts and fel work i will take the hst every time. People need to quit worrying about the regen crap and buy the right size tractor. And by the way i can do the cutting in mid range not low . Sounds to me like something is wrong with the tractor in question.

 

[ericm979]

PTO HP is measured by attaching a dynometer to the PTO. They're common, my dealer has one. If you compare HST and gear models of the same tractor you'll see that the HST models' PTO HP is always a bit lower than the gear model. The PTO is not driven through the HST (or the main transmission on a gear drive). What causes the difference in PTO HP between HST and gear models of the same tractor is on the HST model the HST pump is always turning, even when the tractor is stationary. That takes a few HP.

@Blue Mule- my 37hp tractor is at its limit on many of my slopes in mid range and some need low range (and many are not driveable at all). High range is unuseable except for about 100' of flat driveway. (our land is steep- avg grade from one end to the other is 33%) With loader and loaded rears and an implement the thing weighs more than my pickup. But the pickup has 10x the hp. The tractor's never going to go up hills fast. Even with the new bigger engine tractor you may need to calibrate your expectations.

 

[paulfun9]

I must of got lucky or something because my 38 hp hydrohas lots of power . i can mow up a steep hill with a 6 ft cutter in 3 ft tall grass and brush and not bog down at all.Yes my other 2 shuttle tractors will do the same thing easily, but the ease of mowing around hundreds of cedars and locusts and fel work i will take the hst every time. People need to quit worrying about the regen crap and buy the right size tractor. And by the way i can do the cutting in mid range not low . Sounds to me like something is wrong with the tractor in question.

I can mow uphill with my HST but can mow up the same hill faster with the gear or shuttle and the same HP motor.
Many have argued they can do this and that just as good but every time push comes to shove and I say pull it up to the hill at the bottom side of the yard and drive up or mow up at the same speed, they all of a sudden have a different attitude and start spewing out excuses.

Thinking something is wrong with the tractor is fairly hard to believe because that would mean that out of all the HST machines I have owned that not one from any company ever got it right. Saying I got one bad one I could believe but several?

 

[3gunr]

It just sounds like from his many descriptions of the tractor not being capable of doing anything without bogging down , sounds like something is wrong. My comment on my hst mowing up steep hills is because many on here seem to think an hst just cant handle that. I have only had an hst for 3 yrs , my 2 shuttles i have had for 15 yrs with about 1700 hrs on them and they are great tractors, I just dont feel handicapped with the hst.

 

[RickB]

The PTO horsepower is the power available at the Power Takeoff at PTO 540 implement speed. Everything is measured at PTO 540.

Its calculated by taking:

Engine horsepower x PTO%=PTO horsepower

PTO%= PTO Speed/Engine RPM

The PTO% is basically the overall efficiency of the tractor. HST systems will inherently be less efficient at transferring power than the shuttle's mechanical system.

PTO hp is measured directly by a PTO driven dynamometer.

 

[pmsmechanic]

It just sounds like from his many descriptions of the tractor not being capable of doing anything without bogging down , sounds like something is wrong. My comment on my hst mowing up steep hills is because many on here seem to think an hst just cant handle that. I have only had an hst for 3 yrs , my 2 shuttles i have had for 15 yrs with about 1700 hrs on them and they are great tractors, I just dont feel handicapped with the hst.

Sometimes too you have better results by shifting to a lower range instead of trying stalling the motor out in high range. A hill that you can't pull at 5mph in high range might be totally doable with a higher speed in medium range.

 

[rademamj1]

Yes Indeed. Calibrate your expectations. I needed two weeks before I realized I was not going to zip around my land at the 12mph Kioti listed for mid range speed. Throw a 950lb rotary cutter on the 3pt and my tractor's mowing speed was about walking speed.