Briggs Vanguard 23 in a Steiner 420

[HudsonValleyMo]

I'm getting a good deal from a Steiner dealer on a 2001 420. One previous owner.

Dealer had this re-powered for the home owner with a Briggs Vanguard 23 HP engine a while back.

I guess that's a good thing. Any experience or opinions about this engine?

 

[tomplum]

Yes. Good engine and a keeper!

 

[MountainBuck]

I don't know the 420 or this Briggs engine, but according to this page the two never existed together.

I would be concerned about what they did to get it to work.

My personal experience with other "mash-ups," like cars has not been positive.

 

[MountainBuck]

One thing you may want to chase down, depending on how you intend to operate the tractor is the angle rating of the motor they installed. The Vanguard specs say the oil pickup is "centrally located" for "higher angle of operation" but don't say exactly to what angle.

 

[HudsonValleyMo]

One thing you may want to chase down, depending on how you intend to operate the tractor is the angle rating of the motor they installed. The Vanguard specs say the oil pickup is "centrally located" for "higher angle of operation" but don't say exactly to what angle.

That's a good point.
since this is a reputable Steiner dealer, I feel like they know what they're doing, maybe even prefer this engine from experience over putting in another Kohler or onan? I'll ask them and let you know.

 

[HudsonValleyMo]

I don't know the 420 or this Briggs engine, but according to this page the two never existed together.

I would be concerned about what they did to get it to work.

My personal experience with other "mash-ups," like cars has not been positive.

No they never existed together. But when it came time to replace the engine, the Steiner dealer chose to put this Briggs in as replacement. Cost, maybe ($1,800)? Better, more reliable engine? I'll ask and post if I learn anything.

 

[tomplum]

Though it likely came down to what was more affordable for them to replace, Vanguards are great engines. It is possible to starve any engine of oil supply if you try hard enough- pump or not. Onan engines are out of production, Kohler Commands never seemed to have decent engine specials but would have been a good choice too.

 

[MountainBuck]

I did some more digging and found "a manual" from Vanguard.

Now to be clear, I don't know if the engines have changed over the years or which exact serial numbers, etc..

But the manual I found said it could operate up to 15 degrees of tilt. However it did not specify which direction.

On my property, this would be a problem.

 

[HudsonValleyMo]

Though it likely came down to what was more affordable for them to replace, Vanguards are great engines. It is possible to starve any engine of oil supply if you try hard enough- pump or not. Onan engines are out of production, Kohler Commands never seemed to have decent engine specials but would have been a good choice too.

So if the original had been Onan, they couldn't have replaced it with same. If it had been Kohler, maybe dealer knew from experience to not put in another Kohler. Also, Kubota 3-cyl diesel is at least twice as expensive as the Briggs. I think the Briggs is a good engine, even though I don't understand the issue with "oil pick up tilt angle". I don't have the technical knowledge.

 

[Industrial Toys]

I had a 430MAX with the Liquid Kubota Gas Engine for a little while. I don't like gassers, and still had to fart around with that stupid choke, but man, was that ever a sweet, smooth running engine.

 

[tomplum]

Hmmm, I'd have to look and see on the Briggs when you get the model. Regular Kohler CH were good to 25 degrees, I think. . . It is possible the Steiner group spec'd out a different pickup or something. Saw this on a larger model: Maximum angle of operation for the engines in the 450 Tractors: – Kubota D902: 20° continuous, 30° intermittent* – Kubota WG972-GL: 20° continuous, 30° intermittent* – Vanguard Model 61: 20° continuous, 30° intermittent* Your 23 would be like a 38" engine.

 

[MountainBuck]

Here is the Vanguard 23hp manual

Check out page 10, right side column, half way down talks about 15 degree limit.

It doesn't mention serial numbers - so your mileage may vary

 

[HudsonValleyMo]

Thank you.
15 degrees? I'm getting the Steiner cause it can go up slopes (up to 58%!!!).

Now my choice is between this 420 w 23 HP Briggs, or a 430 Max with 25 HP Kohler. 430 max- about $1,200 more, is cleaner and has been serviced well by the dealer (new seat, new belts and new park brake).

Here is the Vanguard 23hp manual

Check out page 10, right side column, half way down talks about 15 degree limit.

It doesn't mention serial numbers - so your mileage may vary

 

[MountainBuck]

Thank you.
15 degrees? I'm getting the Steiner cause it can go up slopes (up to 58%!!!).

Now my choice is between this 420 w 23 HP Briggs, or a 430 Max with 25 HP Kohler. 430 max- about $1,200 more, is cleaner and has been serviced well by the dealer (new seat, new belts and new park brake).

Be careful not to mix units. I think you are referring to 58 percent slope which is equal to just a hair over 30 degree slope.

 

[HudsonValleyMo]

Be careful not to mix units. I think you are referring to 58 percent slope which is equal to just a hair over 30 degree slope.

I'm already leaning towards the 430 Max cause it's cleaner anyway. But how much better can the stock Kohler be as far as the angle?

I won't go near 58% or 30 degrees. I'm near my limit w my 15 degrees driveway already. What worries me about inclines, is the switchbacks and saddle paths. It's one thing to go straight up and down and incline, whole different thing is crossing a slope.

 

[johara1]

I had a 430MAX with the Liquid Kubota Gas Engine for a little while. I don't like gassers, and still had to fart around with that stupid choke, but man, was that ever a sweet, smooth running engine.

You need to rethink that statement, My 4500P doesn't have a choke and it has higher horse power and more torque than the Kubota diesel and only burns .1 of a gallon more an hour...... jim

 

[johara1]

I'm already leaning towards the 430 Max cause it's cleaner anyway. But how much better can the stock Kohler be as far as the angle?

I won't go near 58% or 30 degrees. I'm near my limit w my 15 degrees driveway already. What worries me about inclines, is the switchbacks and saddle paths. It's one thing to go straight up and down and incline, whole different thing is crossing a slope.

I would make sure on how steep the engine will work at. I had a air cooled stiener and it lost oil pressure were I cut.... jim

 

[johara1]

Here is the Vanguard 23hp manual

Check out page 10, right side column, half way down talks about 15 degree limit.

It doesn't mention serial numbers - so your mileage may vary

I think you have a manual for a vertical shaft engine

 

[MountainBuck]

I think you have a manual for a vertical shaft engine

Here is the horizontal shaft engine. Page 11 also says 15 degrees.

 

[johara1]

I guess it isn't worth messing with on less you would have flat ground...... jim