Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow.

[Gale Hawkins]

Yesterday I had to get a recalled air bag replaced in the Subaru. I wanted to see the advancements made with Eyesight driving assist but the salesman was called because of new car delivery and he said he would get back with me afterwards but that never happened. When the shop was finished I looked up the Tesla store in Nashville and it was only an hour away. I called and they said come on down. Mainly having never looked at a Model 3 or a Model Y I was not sure I could even get it them but thought the Model Y might work since I have no head movement. The Model 3 was a big time no-go but the Model Y worked well size wise.

They said it would be about 30 minutes before they would have a Model Y for a test drive. I explained I was not planning to replace my Nissan Leaf soon for financial reasons. Well as it turned out they are not allowed to be in a car for a demo due to Covid-19 rules. The traffic was getting heavy so my 30 minute test drive turned into an hour because I missed some turns and that is not good in rush hour traffic.

If I had the cash I would get a Model Y like yesterday but will some day. There was a semi load of Tesla's unloading when I got there. There was a large staff managing test drives and customers picking up their new cars. I saw one guy more my age but dress indicated wealth. Most were in the 30-50 age range. The person assigned to me was young and was selling used cars until about 6 months ago. I asked if they were always busy and he said yes. I did not have a test drive appointment but they worked me in even though I was not sure about diving in town and up and down I-65.

This was my best car shopping experience in my 70 years. Most are like my earlier experience yesterday morning where the salesperson wants mainly deal with people that will sign a contract that day. I think traditional dealerships are going to have a hard row to hoe in the coming years. Tesla buyers come in sold on the car and the company. With two in college and a driveway full of functioning vehicles my car needs and wants are not at the top of the list. Yesterday I did make a commitment to own a Tesla one day to the rep working with me.

 

[Grumpycat]

Tesla Store staff are not paid on commission. Tesla rightly does not bow to state legislatures such as Alabama who grant the exclusive rights to operate new automobile dealerships to the Auto Dealer’s Association. Manufacturers are forbidden to sell to any other than a so-called “independent” dealer.

 

[drssg]

Yes, I think the lack of commissions really help the customer experience. I test drove a Tesla about four years ago. My salesman was not old enough to buy a beer, and I'm pretty sure he wanted to have Elon Musk's baby. He was a nice guy and seemed very personally dedicated to the product.

It is the only dealership I've seen where you can directly tell them you are NOT in the market to buy their car, and they welcome you to take a test drive anyway.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

I am guessing there may be points for getting someone behind the wheel for a test drive. Subaru clearly did not want me doing a test drive after driving my Subaru 1.5 hours to get there for the air bag recall.

I would not want a 70 year old so messed up with arthritis so bad that they could not even get in a Model 3 taking a solo hour long test drive during the Nashville rush hour in a $50K+ new Model Y. I do not think me being an EV owner was a factor. Word of mouth promotion is all Telsa uses to grow the company and they still are selling everything they can build.

From what one employee told me the local Ford dealer is not on the list to even get new Mustang EV so that much bite. From the reviews it seems to be a nice EV but Ford and others have not got into making their batteries like Tesla has been doing since 2008.

By 2025 I think the EV industry should be taking shape and become more than just a niche market in the USA which is currently trailing Asia and Europe in EV sales. That may change quickly as old line car companies start fading away due to lack of battery factories and quality EV's can be purchased for $20K due to crashing battery cost. There is NO question that China is going to own the world EV market like Asia owns more and more of the tractor market.

 

[Grumpycat]

I am guessing there may be points for getting someone behind the wheel for a test drive. Subaru clearly did not want me doing a test drive after driving my Subaru 1.5 hours to get there for the air bag recall.

”A Subaru dealer.” Subaru does not tell dealers who to allow test drives.

A Subaru dealer allowed my 80+ year old parents to test drive. Then they bought. They wanted EyeSight.

I would not want a 70 year old so messed up with arthritis so bad that they could not even get in a Model 3 taking a solo hour long test drive during the Nashville rush hour in a $50K+ new Model Y. I do not think me being an EV owner was a factor. Word of mouth promotion is all Telsa uses to grow the company and they still are selling everything they can build.

You are Tesla’s prime customer. Old enough to know your finances. One who might very likely buy once one experiences the assistive driving functions.

From what one employee told me the local Ford dealer is not on the list to even get new Mustang EV so that much bite. From the reviews it seems to be a nice EV but Ford and others have not got into making their batteries like Tesla has been doing since 2008.

Is my understanding Ford has presold all production for the near future. No dealer “gets” any but pass-through to the already sold sale.

There is NO question that China is going to own the world EV market like Asia owns more and more of the tractor market.

I don’t think so. China has not demonstrated any talent to innovate. I worked in same office (room) with a Chinese EE PhD for 6 months. She knew everything, she had a PhD! I was terrified of her work. She could work the math but she had almost no idea about when to. She cribbed some circuits from somewhere, used bootleg EDA tools to lay out and autoroute a PCB, then paid no attention to the routing before sending it out to be built. This was to be a ”smart meter” on the side of people’s homes. You’d think she would have started with safety requirements to build such a thing? Nope. Beneath her status. So help me, she put 100 units in the field with unfused 240 VAC on a 10 mil trace between two 60 mil pads 100 mils apart with ground and 3.3v logic. That leaves 15 mil gap each side. At those voltages copper grows feelers to nearby circuits. UL/ETL will hard fail within seconds of seeing such a thing. Will quit looking at anything else. Anyone stupid enough to submit something like that has not done any of the homework for the 1000 other things one is expected to design for.

Thankfully she got hired away by a large company (who hasn’t fared well) who likes PhDs.

Another Chinese National and I got along very well, we did some very neat things in our respective software (my end had to talk to his end) I later learned my successor did not understand therefore deleted. Company is no longer in the phone book.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

All Eyes On Diesel-Killing Hydrogen Fuel Cell Locomotive in California

If all goes according to plan, the entire US locomotive fleet will switch over to diesel-killing hydrogen fuel cells and other clean tech.

cleantechnica.com

This is a place where Hydrogen may be a good fit.

 

[Frankenkubota]

Universal batteries? I guarantee I'm not the first to come up with this but...

My nephew is a pro athlete and even on the low end he can afford about anything he wants. Even after 3 generations he still has that scotch irish mentality, deep pockets, short arms.

He bought a tesla early on and we got talking about batteries and range and refueling issues etc etc.

At least 5 years ago i said the only thing that makes sense to me is have universal batteries that fit all vehicles, like gas goes in all cars, and switch out at the local "gas" station.

You pull in, Let the robots do the work. In and out in minutes, unless you are in Oregon. In Oregon they would make you pull in and wait.

You could have small, medium and large capacity.

 

[Grumpycat]

At least 5 years ago i said the only thing that makes sense to me is have universal batteries that fit all vehicles, like gas goes in all cars, and switch out at the local "gas" station.

You pull in, Let the robots do the work. In and out in minutes, unless you are in Oregon. In Oregon they would make you pull in and wait.

You could have small, medium and large capacity.

Armchair Coaches have long said that. CARB gave bonus clean air credits to Tesla for a couple years for implementing it in the vehicle. (My Model S battery can be robotically swapped in 90 seconds.) Then to continue Tesla had to field real battery swap stations. Did 1 in California. Extended the bonus points a year.

“Everyone” thought it was a great idea but when it came down to paying $80 for a 90 second swap (videos on YouTube) the, “oh but that is about the same cost as a tank of gasoline” rationalization didn’t work. Early Teslas included free lifetime use of Superchargers so one is faced with 20-30 minutes on free Supercharger or $80 for 90 second swap?

Furthermore the renter must return at some point to recover one’s original battery.

The past 6 years or so the going price for a Tesla 85 kWh battery on eBay has been in the $18,000 range. How much you you charge to rent an $18,000 item for a week? There is $17/week at 5% interest, but also must pay for the robotic swap station, wear and tear on the battery, insurance, electricity, etc.

Better Place Better Place (company) - Wikipedia tried exactly what you claim. Drivers did not own a battery, could only lease the use of a battery, a different battery each swap. Wikipedia’s writer(s) make all kinds of excuses for the technology blaming failure on mismanagement. The simple truth is the vehicle cost too much to drive.

Those who can not let go of the “gas station” model can not understand why EVs do not need a gas station on every street corner, nor the need for 5 minute refills. These things are of little need when one has a vehicle capable of 200 miles every morning. The only time I have interest in a charge station that is not at my home is when I venture 100 miles from home before turning around. That is exactly what Tesla Superchargers are intended. They are not intended as one’s regular gas station.

 

[RSKY]

I dropped out of this thread early on and haven't really kept up with it.

Then my son in law bought a Tesla Model Y. Holy guacamole! That thing is fast! A stretch of road near home is where I test a vehicle when new. I stop on a small bridge across a ditch, floorboard the accelerator, and let off when I go across a larger creek bridge. My wife's 2003 Mazda 6 with V6 would do 105 as would my 2007 Toyota RAV4 V6. There is a slight dogleg halfway between the bridges and I was doing over 90 in the Tesla when I got to it and had to let off the gas (electric, juice, ??). Scared the fool out of myself (and the S-I-L). That dogleg felt like a major curve. I believe it would have made 120-140 by the second bridge.

I want one!!

RSKY

 

[Grumpycat]

2021 Tesla Model Y Long Range is rated (an honest EPA rating) at 27 kWh/100 miles. At $0.10/kWh and $3.00/gallon for gasoline the Y gets the equivalent of 111 MPG$.