New Tractor Company as if we didn't have enough

[Slowpoke Slim]

Bear,

I'm not saying it won't happen. Of course it will. Never said it wouldn't. But without the clean infrastructure to go with it, it's just feel good pandering FOR NOW.

I think the Chinese filtering their power plants did WAY more good for their air quality than electric vehicles. A faster and more noticeable return on their investment.

 

[bearthebruce]

@Slowpoke Slim, can't agree on the autos.. I had the privilege of breathing the pollution on the streets...

True, the big cloud effect was the power plants.. and the grit one felt on their skin too.. Been around autos and know what exhaust smells like. Big change there.

 

[metro60]

Snowflake tractor.....lol

what does that mean?

 

[LouNY]

yuppie machine

 

[DieselBound]

Economies of scale. I don't readily see it happening in anything other than big corporate operations (that have the necessary bevy of attorneys to claw offsetting deductions).

What is not stated is what kind of electrical service is required for that 5hr charge time? Careful to be on the lookout for over-hyped marketing. [maybe] trust, but verify...

I would welcome not having to do oil changes. However, what about hydraulics? All electric? I suppose (I have electric ram on the dump bed of my UTV). Lubricants are still going to be in the mix somewhere. Much of today's oil-based products are from maximizing the raw oil stock. Lesser oil products, though critical, are essentially subsidized by the larger oil extraction and processing process. If you significantly cut back on the bulk elements (gasoline, diesel etc.) then processing in total, which would be the entire point of all this, would go down and would, according to economies of scale, result in greater expenses for those other critical oil-based products.

Most people can't afford EV cars owing to being heavily in debt (well, the bulk of humanity doesn't own private vehicles, but as we tend to have blinders on and only view the "western" world...). Tractors?

It's a finite planet. Energy is only part of the equation. If we "solve" for energy (ditch oil) and continue on the path of perpetual growth we will STILL encounter climate issues (compare and contract the forests of Haiti vs Dominican Republic).

 

[PuffyC]

But without the clean infrastructure to go with it....

This is one of the best parts - going forward we'll need less infrastructure, not more. As more homes and offices move to onsite solar generation, the need to have some giant power plant shooting electricity down powerlines for mile after mile will decrease. I fully expect in my lifetime to require no grid-tied electricity whatsoever at my home except for as an emergency backup. People are doing it already and it's only picking up steam as solar gets cheaper and cheaper.

 

[DieselBound]

This is one of the best parts - going forward we'll need less infrastructure, not more. As more homes and offices move to onsite solar generation, the need to have some giant power plant shooting electricity down powerlines for mile after mile will decrease. I fully expect in my lifetime to require no grid-tied electricity whatsoever at my home except for as an emergency backup. People are doing it already and it's only picking up steam as solar gets cheaper and cheaper.

We'll see less infrastructure because we won't be able to afford more (we've for sure over-built to the point where we cannot maintain what we have- this seems to be a fundamental issue that is unlikely going to change just because we pick up on another "solution"- it's the nature of the system- over-sell the "solution" and under-sell/under-rate maintenance).

If one looks at the human environments on most of the globe one would see that "affordability" is more than a long-shot. Heck, I can go around my own "neighborhood" and see this.

 

[hube2]

I have solar, a 10KW array. I can tell you that "being green" had nothing to do with my choice to have it installed.

I am still connected to the grid. I cannot product electricity at night and I would need an enormous amount of batteries to keep everything going when I am not producing. I feed the grit during the day and eat from it at night. The battery backup that is currently available to me with the space I have would run my house for maybe an hour or two during a power outage and would be just for emergencies. Maybe some day the battery cost will come down and I can think about going off grid, but the system I have works perfectly fine for me.

All I really care about is not paying the power company.

Like I said, "going green" had nothing to do with putting it in. The reason I put it in is $$$. It went live December of 2017. At the time with the incentives NY State and federal government paid over 50% of what it cost me. In another few years I will have it paid for and I will have paid less over the life of the loan than I would have paid the power company. With the life expectancy of the equipment I will have nearly free power for many years and the system will have more than paid for itself allowed me to do something else with the $$$ I would have sent to the power company.

Not needing to pay for power is part of my retirement plan.

 

[lman]

@Slowpoke Slim, a few years back, I believed as you do - that the EV revolution is a myth and that the pollution just moves from one type to another. I still do but with less passion.

I started traveling to China in 2010. Frankly the air quality there sucked in all the major cities I visited. I was back in China in 2016, 2017, and 2018. I could not believe what the Chinese had accomplished in such a short time.

Leading the way was their development of EV. At the same time, they put the fixed pollution controls on their coal fired power plants. They restricted driving in the cities. In each of the later years, I actually saw the sun on a sunny day. Their pollution issues were significantly reduced.

While much of what you have written remains true - that our grid cannot support a complete change to EV, that we need new clean energy sources, that we need to solve the battery reclamation issues, my point to you is that there can be a huge change in the air quality to take the ICE out of the mainstream - especially in the big population centers. In rural locals, it makes little difference. In the population centers, I have witnessed the big change.

Keep an open mind. I am not convinced EV is the solution everywhere. I am convinced it has advantages and it has disadvantages.

Also keep in mind that the governments are pushing the electrification of vehicles. Manufacturers are being pressured to comply. I don't see what the governments get out of it but they are pushing. My daddy told me, "Son, follow the money if you want to know what is happening." Someone is getting money from all this.

I saw what the Chinese achieved in a short time. Could LA, NYC, Chicago, Atlanta, other big cities... do the same if they push for EV.

What about the rest of us? I'm not sure. I just know it is coming and it will not be stopped. CA. OR, WA they (the people) want it. The West coast often sets the agenda. A day will come when all that will be at the dealer will be EVs of some ilk. That day will be by the end of this decade if the plans of many manufactures come to fruition. Prediction is that by 2035, 50% of all vehicles on the highways will be EV. Could be BS. Might just be reality.

I hope you flew to China on an electric jet, if not you have contributed to this pollution problem more than most of us.

 

[Williy]

When I installed our solar system our electric bill was a little under $300 month now its in the $40's. It took about 2 1/2 years to pay for the system. We had central air & heat but threw it out as the clown that install the system really didn't know what he was doing because it started to leak and it needed a 60 amp breaker. We now have two window units 8000 btu's and 6000 btu's and together they draw 12.8 amps long way from 60 amps. Never purchase a window a/c unit from walmart as the 5000 btu draws 15 amps. If you install your own system you can save a bundle. A guy had a $10,000 system installed and he saves a whole $40 a month on his electric bill so having someone install your solar system sucks big time! Has anyone seen the colleges having electric car races and some of the cars have burned up because the batteries over heated? they run only on solar panels on the top of the car. Any one see that china banned all electric motor bikes? Here we have a lot of wind so will have to invest in a 24 volt wind generator. MO solar has 12 & 24 volt wind generators and they really put out the juice. I have a 12 volt wind generator now will have to get a 24 volt. https://windandsolar.com/search.php...&section=product&search_query=wind+generators even home depot is selling wind generators: Home Wind Turbines - Wind Generators - The Home Depot

back when we were having so called gas shortages a taxi drive had
this arab in his cab and there were a lot of cars pulling sailboats around and this arab says to the driver you sure have a bad gas shortage with all the sailboats pushing the cars

willy