Buying Advice A tractor for 35 wooded acres

[al3]

On 40 acres, mix of tree farm red pines, big hill with hardwoods, 5 acres of meadow/fruit trees. Mostly upland but 15% next to a year round creek that has aspen/birch, alder, grasses.

Overall satisfied with the CUT to manage the place. Its size is an asset going into and moving around the woods. Things like brush hogging between the pines rows to keep invasive in check, moving downed trees/slashing with forks, skidding trunks, making/maintaining paths. Width and length are often not your friends when traversing among the trees. Smaller packaging fits into places bigger sometimes can’t.

There have been a few time larger FEL lift capacity would be welcomed. Like having a piece of heavy equipment delivered and needing it removed, moving a large piece of equipment, vehicle, or extra-large rock. I’ve rented /hired out the real heavy lifts.

I enjoyed the observations offered about attempting to go into the woods with a belly mower attached…..great advice. The same reason you should crawl under whatever you’re thinking of buying and look for things that can bend/break/snap, like transmission fans and filters, poorly routed lines and hoses, even poorly located drain cocks. Folding ROPS will get you under a lot more trees. (Safety Stasi pipe in here…..)

As pointed out it comes down to what you plan to do. What works well in wide open spaces/field work may be less than ideal in the woods. If you don’t plan to go cross country bigger can be better. Soft ground, trees on 4 foot centers or less---agility counts.

Good luck

 

[CoyPatton]

I can't wait to see what you end up with.

Here are a couple of things I think all the tractor old timers will agree on.

A smooth-running engine, easy to get on/off, comfortable seating, quiet transmission, and comfortable controls all turn out to be are way more important than you think at first. No matter what the salesman says, these are all things that rarely change with time.

About HP difference - I doubt you will notice a couple of HP more or less. You might notice 5 hp, and you WILL notice a ten HP difference.

Remember that more gears are more useful than more HP.

After using R1s for years, we recently (15 years ago) switched to R4s when buying our present machines - this after flirting with turf tires (R3) on a couple of tractors.
I now prefer the R4s - but it really depends on your soil. If you have sticky wet mud or you plan to do a lot of plowing - then go with the R1s. If your soil is more sandy and better drained or compacted.... and especially if loader work in the woods is what you do more than plowing, then I think you will find the R4s work better. But don't let the tires change your mind from your favorite tractor. Either tire will work.
Stick with your choice, changing tire types usually requires changing wheels and is expensive.

Oddly enough, we had to use chains a lot with our R1s in deep snow. So we bought chains to fit our R4s and thus far (15 years) have never used those chains. I would have thought it would be the other way around. But a lot depends on the changing weather.

If you have a few hundred bucks left in the budget - not enough for an implement, but want to do something for the tractor... consider wheel weights instead of filling the tires. Or a canopy.

About implements - for most any implement that you drag through the dirt, a used one will work as good as a new one.
Lots of adjustments for tilt, angle, and offset are good on any back blade - as are gauge wheels and end caps.

Good luck,
rScotty

Not to disagree with rScotty, mostly because I don’t. But on used implements, which all but 2 of my were purchased used. Those 2 because the used were priced so close to new, it seemed silly to me to pay that for some else’s headache.
Not my addition to rScotty’s statement about used implements, if quick hitch (QH) (all 3 points) compatibility is important to you, do not be surprised if used implements do not work without be reworked. This usually is in relation to the top link connection. As a work around QH, consider Pat’s quick hitch system, then go for those used implements assuming a decent price. One caution on used is those with gear boxes or others heavy on moving parts. One my new purchased implements was a tiller.

 

[CoyPatton]

As far as rolling R1’s off the bead, I personally have never done this. However, I think the same could be done with R3, R4, and R14 as well. It would only require low tire pressure, front axle overload, and pressure against a sidewall (hard turn, downhill angle). Again regardless if tire selection, I believe there is a risk of this. Ut may be greater with narrower tires, but the big thing is to transfer the weigh to the rear axle.
Personally, I am not a huge fan of loaded tires or wheel weights. Filled tires ate a pain to deal with if you ever gave need to pull a tire off. This is even more so as I get more age in my body (60 now). Same goes for wheel weights. And they are heavy and awkward to deal with set into wheel dish.
Lastly, ballast box type weight or heavy implement with a QH is easier to deal with, but it also puts into play the lessons learned on what my generation called see-saws in science it was the lever and fulcrum. Specs on this weight recommendation may be in the loader documentation if not in the tractor manual.

 

[jjp8182]

It would only require low tire pressure,

Bingo - did this once on my front R4 tires (didn't realize just how little they bulge at low pressure). Ended up using a ratchet strap tightened around the tire to get it to re-seat while refilling the tire. Something I'd learned from a coworker who'd bought car tires online and the shop installing them on his car had to do the same thing to the car tires since they'd been deformed in shipping.

Personally, I am not a huge fan of loaded tires or wheel weights. Filled tires ate a pain to deal with if you ever gave need to pull a tire off. This is even more so as I get more age in my body (60 now). Same goes for wheel weights. And they are heavy and awkward to deal with set into wheel dish.
Lastly, ballast box type weight or heavy implement with a QH is easier to deal with, but it also puts into play the lessons learned on what my generation called see-saws in science it was the lever and fulcrum. Specs on this weight recommendation may be in the loader documentation if not in the tractor manual.

Can't say that I am a fan either, but if a tractor with a loader starts to get a bit light in the backside either is a good option as the three point may not always be available to hold ballast. For example if/when pulling something from the drawbar or using a 3pt implement that is fully supporting it's own weight (in full or part). The latter of which is why I ended up adding wheel weights since there were a few points where when mowing down slope (in a drainage ditch) the rear wheels started getting uncomfortably light on the ground.

While neither wheel weights nor fluid filled tires remove the need to have appropriate ballast for loader work, they can/do help re-redistribute the weight of the tractor when a loader has been installed on the tractor.

 

[tblakemore]

I did see his content....good stuff. Unfortunately, I had my spreadsheet mostly done by the time I saw his....it was still helpful. Where are you located if you don't mind my asking? Or which lake if you don't want to get too specific?

Cool, thought his stuff was pretty well thought out lots of food for thought. I'm just south of seneca falls between Seneca and Cayuga lakes

 

[rScotty]

lots of good info in there rScotty....thanks for taking the time.

You are more than welcome. Here is something for you to read and enjoy about buying tractors:

I'm thinking back to when I was a young guy doing my own mechanical work & buying my first tractor. Money was tight and I was likely to look at shortcomings as:
"OK, I can deal with that"
That first tractor had manual gears & manual steering.
The 3pt hitch had chain tensioners. The loader is basic with no frills or options. It didn't have power or stability. It had a tractor umbrella for protection! I absolutely loved it & loved using it & so did my wife.

FFWD 20 years until there is more money but time is tight. I'm manufacturing some parts as well as doing tractoring.... and my thinking is more like:
"I want a tractor that will reliably do exactly what I want when I need it and not require any of my extra time or attention".
My tractor now has power shift & power steering and an insulated canopy. The loader has SSQA. The 3pt has telescoping arms and geared cranks for tensioning.
I really appreciate the time it saves me. My wife appreciates that, but no longer drives it herself.

Another 30 years pass & now money is available, I'm slowing down, and I've now spent years designing mechanical things. My emphasis has changed yet again to:
"I really value a tractor where the designer has foreseen some problems & taken care of them proactively. This tractor is expensive, but the filters are handy, the underneath parts are protected from rocks and tree limbs.... the controls are right, and the seat actually feels good after a few hours."

Now our Tractor has a cab, 6 range HST & power everything. The loader has remote hydraulics and options. The 3pt is all hydraulic and there is a quick attach backhoe attachment - not so much for digging but for lifting and placing heavy things I can no longer do manually. This tractor is actually comfortable; my wife insisted I buy all the bells and whistles on this one.

The takeaway is that each tractor was entirely appropriate at the time. They were all wonderful.

Enjoy the journey,
rScotty

 

[rScotty]

Oh...you asked about R14 vs R4s. I don't know about the R14s, but they sound interesting enough that I'd probably try them if buying another tractor. Especially if what I was doing a lot of land shaping work in the trees and around rocky soil - which is what I enjoy the most.

As for tire weights, if you buy a new tractor and do the manufacturer's "build your tractor" online option then sometimes cast weights will be offered at a good price. That's when I would consider getting them - you know they fit right and look good. Otherwise probably not.
I'm not a fan of fluid-filled tires for weight. My own feeling to to use the tractor as it comes until I see if it needs weight and where.

I've had open station and cabbed tractors. My favorite is an open station with an insulated 4 post canopy....yes, I sometimes wish it had a fold-down windshield and a heater, but even without those I think the canopy is the compromise that is right for me. Nice in the woods and in the sun and weather but still easy to hop on and off.
Luck,
rScotty

 

[ripHST]

Bingo - did this once on my front R4 tires (didn't realize just how little they bulge at low pressure). Ended up using a ratchet strap tightened around the tire to get it to re-seat while refilling the tire. Something I'd learned from a coworker who'd bought car tires online and the shop installing them on his car had to do the same thing to the car tires since they'd been deformed in shipping.



Can't say that I am a fan either, but if a tractor with a loader starts to get a bit light in the backside either is a good option as the three point may not always be available to hold ballast. For example if/when pulling something from the drawbar or using a 3pt implement that is fully supporting it's own weight (in full or part). The latter of which is why I ended up adding wheel weights since there were a few points where when mowing down slope (in a drainage ditch) the rear wheels started getting uncomfortably light on the ground.

While neither wheel weights nor fluid filled tires remove the need to have appropriate ballast for loader work, they can/do help re-redistribute the weight of the tractor when a loader has been installed on the tractor.

thanks Coy and jjp......that was helpful. I do think I'm just going to have the tires filled to start (or fill myself) and think about weights or whatever if I ever have to take the wheels off. Too many other things swimming around in my head to make my decision with and I think I'll just go the easy route on this one.

 

[ripHST]

Cool, thought his stuff was pretty well thought out lots of food for thought. I'm just south of seneca falls between Seneca and Cayuga lakes

I went through there last week.....looking at tractors. I stopped at Martins to look at the Yanmar but he only had SCUTs. Went up the road to another place and looked at the Mahindra.

 

[tblakemore]

Nice, yup I am not to far away from those and while I have driven by I have not had a chance to stop and talk with them, what was your experience like? I took a drive over to addys power over in king ferry this morning to see a kioti machine first hand. I had a good chat with the sales guy but the stock they had on hand was limited in terms of things in a cab option. They only had one ck3510se w/a cab (but it was at their location in auburn) so I ended up going by there on my way home to walk around and look at it, it looks like a pretty nice little tractor. I'll have to check with

The other place I would like to check again is the LS dealer down in trumansburg, I know from my prior research that LS seemed to provide a lot of tractor for the money.

I am curious to hear what you're thinking size and brand.

Overall it was not a bad way to spend a rainy day

 

[ripHST]

Nice, yup I am not to far away from those and while I have driven by I have not had a chance to stop and talk with them, what was your experience like? I took a drive over to addys power over in king ferry this morning to see a kioti machine first hand. I had a good chat with the sales guy but the stock they had on hand was limited in terms of things in a cab option. They only had one ck3510se w/a cab (but it was at their location in auburn) so I ended up going by there on my way home to walk around and look at it, it looks like a pretty nice little tractor. I'll have to check with

The other place I would like to check again is the LS dealer down in trumansburg, I know from my prior research that LS seemed to provide a lot of tractor for the money.

I am curious to hear what you're thinking size and brand.

Overall it was not a bad way to spend a rainy day

Hey TB......It looks like we’re following a very similar path. I didn’t talk to anyone at either of the dealers up by you. The Yanmar dealer didn’t have anything larger than a Subcompact and I wasn’t thrilled with the operator’s station on the Mahindra so I decided not to bother them. I have visited Addy’s and Brian Switzer’s place (LS in T-burg) several times. I like both dealers and would have been happy to give them my money. I really liked the LS on paper and liked the station, but didn’t get a chance to operate them. He has two XR3135H coming but he didn’t know when they would be coming. I crossed it off the list temporarily and focused on the CK3510SE at Addy’s and the TYM T474 (a place called Q’s Power in Newark). I pulled the trigger on the T474 yesterday.

Inventory is low....especially for Cab tractors it seems. I think Brian had an M3 in a cab when I was up there....not sure if you want something that big or not. That CK3510 at Addy’s was nice. It was a tough call for me between the two. The controls on the Kioti were nicer, but the TYM was just more tractor for only a bit more money (heavier, lot more HP and bigger loader and slightly bigger BH). They had a T474 cab up there but I think they sold it.

Good luck....let me know if there any more details I can share that would help. I’d be happy to share any of my research.

 

[tblakemore]

Hey TB......It looks like we’re following a very similar path. I didn’t talk to anyone at either of the dealers up by you. The Yanmar dealer didn’t have anything larger than a Subcompact and I wasn’t thrilled with the operator’s station on the Mahindra so I decided not to bother them. I have visited Addy’s and Brian Switzer’s place (LS in T-burg) several times. I like both dealers and would have been happy to give them my money. I really liked the LS on paper and liked the station, but didn’t get a chance to operate them. He has two XR3135H coming but he didn’t know when they would be coming. I crossed it off the list temporarily and focused on the CK3510SE at Addy’s and the TYM T474 (a place called Q’s Power in Newark). I pulled the trigger on the T474 yesterday.

Inventory is low....especially for Cab tractors it seems. I think Brian had an M3 in a cab when I was up there....not sure if you want something that big or not. That CK3510 at Addy’s was nice. It was a tough call for me between the two. The controls on the Kioti were nicer, but the TYM was just more tractor for only a bit more money (heavier, lot more HP and bigger loader and slightly bigger BH). They had a T474 cab up there but I think they sold it.

Good luck....let me know if there any more details I can share that would help. I’d be happy to share any of my research.

Nice, congrats on the new tractor!

Good to know there's a TYM dealer in the area (and one which is not the dude over near auburn) Based on how he spams the heck out of CL I decided that I would rather not give him any money. But, I'll have to put them back on the list to check into.

I saw that there was no cab'd options at the Seneca Falls store and took a run over to the Martins branch near geneva (which didn't have anything larger than the store here in seneca falls) They did have a cab'd version but it was small (I didnt stop)

Haven't had a chance to look at the Mahindras up close

Cool good to hear that your experience talking with with the LS/Kioti dealers was similar to mine. I think like you say that the cabs are kinda scarce at the moment. I did find that Tom (I believe was who I spoke with) was trying to push me toward the CK3510SE vrs a larger tractor, but overall I found that they were/are decent to talk with and not super pushy.

Since you offered to share I'd love to see your spreadsheet that you mentioned you were put together. (or anything else you've found along the way)

-T

 

[ripHST]

Nice, congrats on the new tractor!

Good to know there's a TYM dealer in the area (and one which is not the dude over near auburn) Based on how he spams the heck out of CL I decided that I would rather not give him any money. But, I'll have to put them back on the list to check into.

I saw that there was no cab'd options at the Seneca Falls store and took a run over to the Martins branch near geneva (which didn't have anything larger than the store here in seneca falls) They did have a cab'd version but it was small (I didnt stop)

Haven't had a chance to look at the Mahindras up close

Cool good to hear that your experience talking with with the LS/Kioti dealers was similar to mine. I think like you say that the cabs are kinda scarce at the moment. I did find that Tom (I believe was who I spoke with) was trying to push me toward the CK3510SE vrs a larger tractor, but overall I found that they were/are decent to talk with and not super pushy.

Since you offered to share I'd love to see your spreadsheet that you mentioned you were put together. (or anything else you've found along the way)

-T

TYM was originally on my radar because of the guy over near Auburn, but in the few interactions I've had with them (I was also in the market for a kid's 4-wheeler last year), I...like you....decided I didn't want to deal with them. I expanded my search and found the dealer in Newark. A bit far, but I found that I really liked they guy I talked to and felt like they'd take care of me. I'll PM you with some details.

I don't know what your needs are that would dictate size, but if they're similar to mine, I don't think you could go wrong with the Kioti. Definitely check with Brian Switzer though if you want to have options.....he may still have a cab tractor, or may have one coming in. There's also a Branson dealer also not too far away. He seemed like a good guy over the phone, but I didn't actually visit his lot. I'll PM you my spreadsheet and give you some more details.

 

[tblakemore]

TYM was originally on my radar because of the guy over near Auburn, but in the few interactions I've had with them (I was also in the market for a kid's 4-wheeler last year), I...like you....decided I didn't want to deal with them. I expanded my search and found the dealer in Newark. A bit far, but I found that I really liked they guy I talked to and felt like they'd take care of me. I'll PM you with some details.

I don't know what your needs are that would dictate size, but if they're similar to mine, I don't think you could go wrong with the Kioti. Definitely check with Brian Switzer though if you want to have options.....he may still have a cab tractor, or may have one coming in. There's also a Branson dealer also not too far away. He seemed like a good guy over the phone, but I didn't actually visit his lot. I'll PM you my spreadsheet and give you some more details.

Sounds great, I appreciate you sharing that!

I have to reach back out and chat with Brian again (was a few years ago when I was talking with him about the LS tractors). In terms of size, I think with the property I have a 40-50 hp tractor is the range which would be good, I think that 35 would be on the small size.

Basically I want something that will let me do the job (property maint, firewood gathering/processing, snow management, etc) but not spend all day doing the job (if that makes sense)

Newark's roughly the same distance away all things considered (and now in the direction my current job is)

 

[ripHST]

Well....the new tractor was delivered today. I had just enough time to take it out on a couple of the trails to see how it’ll handle in the woods. I’ve got a little trimming to do but the trails were plenty wide for the most part. My grapple and forks will be here Tuesday and the box blade in 2 or 3 weeks. Let the work begin! Thanks everyone for all the help.

The color scheme is unintentional.

 

[tblakemore]

Awesome! Congrats on the new toy
-T

 

[Recuts]

Great thread! I'm new here. Congrats on the new tractor! I am a neighbor and love Switzer. Great guy and closest dealer of any mfr to me, but I ultimately chose a Kubota. Mostly because of all the great Messicks videos and the Kubota dealer was equally helpful. You made a good choice that I am sure will serve you well for decades. Look forward to seeing your property progress! Best, Dave

 

[ripHST]

Awesome! Congrats on the new toy
-T

thanks Todd!

Great thread! I'm new here. Congrats on the new tractor! I am a neighbor and love Switzer. Great guy and closest dealer of any mfr to me, but I ultimately chose a Kubota. Mostly because of all the great Messicks videos and the Kubota dealer was equally helpful. You made a good choice that I am sure will serve you well for decades. Look forward to seeing your property progress! Best, Dave

thanks Dave and welcome. I'm pretty excited.....it's already impressing me with what it can do and I've only got 3 hours on it so far. I didn't talk about it much in this thread, but I did look hard at Kubota (it's one of the closest dealers to me) but they didn't have what I would have wanted and couldn't be sure when it would arrive. In the end the T474 was the best fit for me. How long have you had yours? What kind of projects are you working on with it?

 

[Midniteoyl]

Well....the new tractor was delivered today. I had just enough time to take it out on a couple of the trails to see how it’ll handle in the woods. I’ve got a little trimming to do but the trails were plenty wide for the most part. My grapple and forks will be here Tuesday and the box blade in 2 or 3 weeks. Let the work begin! Thanks everyone for all the help.

Nice tractor. Congrats!

Question: Are those tires as close to the fenders as it looks? Really fills up the well...

 

[ripHST]

Nice tractor. Congrats!

Question: Are those tires as close to the fenders as it looks? Really fills up the well...

Thanks. I never noticed a difference in the wheel wells. I did a quick search and most looked similar to what I have so maybe it’s a trick of the angle. I did see a couple of models of Kubota and JD that looked noticeably different though. Not sure.