Buying Advice A tractor for 35 wooded acres

[deezler]

thanks for the BH input deezler. I get what you're saying and am pondering if that's a better route for me, but I'm leaning toward getting it because of the "buy once, cry once" principle. I know that every time I plop down $6-800 for rental and have to go and get it and then worry about getting it back in time.....well, there will be less anguish just buying it now. granted, less capable then a rented excavator. now....you want to see crying.....it'll be me if I buy the BH and still find I need to rent an excavator.

Haha. Yeah I am planning to push over some large trees and will be ripping out some big stumps - stuff a compact tractor backhoe would really struggle with. Almost wish I would have a larger excavator to do it more quickly and safely, but this is about all I can afford to rent. It's $660 + tax delivered Fri afternoon and picked up Monday morning. No rushing to return it, etc. They even stop by the gas station to top off the diesel at pump prices for ya.

 

[arrow]

Tractors get a lot smaller during the first few months of operation. The Bransons have a tighter turning radius than other tractors their size. I operate in tight quarters a lot and it's not been a problem for me. I've reached or exceeded the loader's capacity picking up logs with the grapple. CUT loaders can pick up more at ground level than at full height, and can often lift more than they can curl. I've carried logs back to my processing area with the grapple pointing down because it couldn't curl the log up. Of course I would not lift a heavy log to full height, that's begging for a rollover.

I think Branson one of the better choices but I just wish their dealer network was a little wider.

 

[southernboy]

Just my two cents. I am a do it myself type for the fun of it and doing it the way I want it. I recently had my woods game cut of huge gums and pines. The cutters did a great job but there is still lots of tops and stumps. As I said in my other post I am also looking for a new tractor. I was going to buy or rent a dedicated bobcat/dedicated backhoe. After a lot of research on popping stumps and my past experience using my tractor bucket to do the same I decided to hire a large excavator with operator. It was almost $1000 for a long day. He pulled at least 50 huge stumps, compressed a huge scag pile from the loading site, deepened two small ponds and moved a lot of tops. The stumps alone would of taken hours of backhoe digging on each. He pulled huge pine stumps at about 5 min each. Add the work done to the wear and tear on a compact tractor backhoe it is well worth the money to hire a good operator on a large machine. I was also amazed how tight of areas he got in to!

 

[tradosaurus]

I know people hate seeing old threads revived so apologies......I'm finally back to looking at tractors and re-read this one (and many, many newer ones) to help my decision and realized there is a ton of great information here provided by the good members of TBN. I think it's still relevant and useful, definitely to me and perhaps to others.

Interesting that I've basically picked up where I left off back in 2016/2017 and have it narrowed to basically the same tractors. My short list is still the Kioti CK3510H (the SE) and the LS XR3135. I've recently also added the TYM T474H and the Branson 3515H. Same two dealers for the Kioti and the LS....both seem good and have had their lines for quite a few years it seems. The Branson dealer is typical to what I see in this area, started with something else (car repair, small engines, lawn equipment, etc) and recently added tractors. No face to face yet but on the phone he seemed very helpful and knowledgeable. That means a lot to me. The TYM story is more complicated....I like the tractor specs and have seen generally positive things about it and especially the engine, but no nearby dealers and the guy with good price (almost too good) is farthest away and seems a little fly-by-night. I know, cross him off the list, but we're talking enough cheaper to make me consider it anyway. Plus I like the idea of giving a small guy a shot.......what can I say. Cooler heads (my wife) will probably prevail though and I'll end up forgoing the huge savings.

all the other tractors are within a few hundred of one another, which is to say cost isn't an issue between them really. The Kioti, LS and Branson are spec'd almost the same (same niceties for the most part, same power, Branson might have the slight edge on specs but loses a bit on dealer and name stability for me). The TYM is quite a bit more tractor but the dealer is farther away and one of these bigger equipment dealers, rather than an established mom and pop shop that I tend to favor. Also, I'm a little less sure of TYM even though they've been around for a long time. The dealer I spoke with did confirm that they'll do onsite (my site) warranty work for free, but if the tractor needs to go to the shop that's on me).

Same old story.....lots of threads like this. Just hoping something in my experience will help others as I've been helped. I'll try better to add to this as I go. If anyone wants to talk me into or outof any of the above, I'd love to hear those comments.

My list of tasks that are waiting for this tractor are:
brush clean up....LOTS of brush clean up.
moving logs...bucking, sawing
removal of invasives (those tree pullers have caught my eye)
pond edge clean up
water diversion
snow removal
gravel drive maintenance
maybe some tilling eventually
general loader work (gravel, mulch, etc)

I have 45 acres with 42 acres wooded. A heavy duty grapple (weight of grapple will reduce total lifting capacity), heavy duty rotary cutter, heavy duty box blade and about a 50 hp tractor might be you option and is what I have now. I started with a 33 hp and found that picking up downed trees (cut into sections) was a bit more than it could handle. Now I have a 54 hp with 1,000 lb more weight and 20 more pto hp. Also I would consider R1 tires running around in the woods.

 

[Williy]

I ordered a Yanmar YT235C TLB and I added the attachment to the
backhoe so I pick up brush, branches etc. a whole lot cheaper than
a grapple. I have a 1974 Ford pickup that I haul brush etc on our
property so will use backhoe to load pickup and then take and unload.
more work but saving around $5,000 and I get the exercise. Its a win
win situation for me!

willy

 

[ripHST]

It was almost $1000 for a long day. He pulled at least 50 huge stumps, compressed a huge scag pile from the loading site, deepened two small ponds and moved a lot of tops. The stumps alone would of taken hours of backhoe digging on each. He pulled huge pine stumps at about 5 min each. Add the work done to the wear and tear on a compact tractor backhoe it is well worth the money to hire a good operator on a large machine.

That sounds like a lot of work for a grand. I'd say money well spent.

I started with a 33 hp and found that picking up downed trees (cut into sections) was a bit more than it could handle. Now I have a 54 hp with 1,000 lb more weight and 20 more pto hp. Also I would consider R1 tires running around in the woods.

Tires is one of the big questions for me right now. I was thinking I'd go with R1s or the new R14s, but finding tractors without R4s around here is a challenge and the dealers are vague about whether they can switch them out within a reasonable amount of time and at the quoted price. I suspect it's going to be hard to get the R1s without ordering a tractor from the factory due to the different rims, and the lead time is probably too long on that from what I'm hearing. The Kioti has R14s on it now but the TYM and all others I've looked at had R4s. I really don't want tires to dictate what tractor I buy....but I have to admit I'm worried the R4s won't cut it in the woods on the slopes or if it gets too wet. I checked out the TYM yesterday and I'm leaning toward this over the Kioti....it's just more machine for the same money. Both dealers seem good, but the TYM is quite a bit farther from me.

 

[tradosaurus]

That sounds like a lot of work for a grand. I'd say money well spent.

Tires is one of the big questions for me right now. I was thinking I'd go with R1s or the new R14s, but finding tractors without R4s around here is a challenge and the dealers are vague about whether they can switch them out within a reasonable amount of time and at the quoted price. I suspect it's going to be hard to get the R1s without ordering a tractor from the factory due to the different rims, and the lead time is probably too long on that from what I'm hearing. The Kioti has R14s on it now but the TYM and all others I've looked at had R4s. I really don't want tires to dictate what tractor I buy....but I have to admit I'm worried the R4s won't cut it in the woods on the slopes or if it gets too wet. I checked out the TYM yesterday and I'm leaning toward this over the Kioti....it's just more machine for the same money. Both dealers seem good, but the TYM is quite a bit farther from me.

My dealer had the tractor I wanted on the lot but with R4's and I needed 3rd function, heavy duty bucket and rear remotes added.

Took about a month to have everything ordered and installed. I would think the R1 rims/tires should be easy to get.

 

[Williy]

Don't know if you have a Yanmar dealer near you but if you do
check this tractor out: Its kinda like a stick shift but its hydro.

YT3 Series | YANMAR Tractor

Explore YANMAR tractor models in the hardworking YT3 Series. Popular for 25 or more acres.

www.yanmartractor.com

willy
Of course I like Yanmar tractors as I haven't seen any better!

 

[ripHST]

My dealer had the tractor I wanted on the lot but with R4's and I needed 3rd function, heavy duty bucket and rear remotes added.

Took about a month to have everything ordered and installed. I would think the R1 rims/tires should be easy to get.

I've heard people on the forum say using R1s with heavy loader work can be a problem. Most of what I'll be doing is brush piles, but I do expect to pick up the occasional heavy log or rock.....would the R1s be a bad choice for uneven ground and loads like that? Any experience with that?

 

[ripHST]

Don't know if you have a Yanmar dealer near you but if you do
check this tractor out: Its kinda like a stick shift but its hydro.

YT3 Series | YANMAR Tractor

Explore YANMAR tractor models in the hardworking YT3 Series. Popular for 25 or more acres.

www.yanmartractor.com

willy
Of course I like Yanmar tractors as I haven't seen any better!

that's a beaut Willy, and that transmission seems really cool. but it's.....wait for it.....$22K more than the tractors I'm looking at! And roughly the same size as the TYM. Really cool though.

 

[Williy]

ripHST which ever one you get hope it serves you well with longevity. One thing about tractors you just have to try them out to get the feel of one to make a choice.​

willy

 

[ripHST]

ripHST which ever one you get hope it serves you well with longevity. One thing about tractors you just have to try them out to get the feel of one to make a choice.​

willy

Thanks Willy. That’s basically where I’m at. I got some seat time in the TYM last weekend and the Kioti today. I think I may go try the TYM again tomorrow and see if the salesman will sharpen his pencil. I’m not expecting a lot though with demand so high. The two machines are so close in specs it’s making it hard. The TYM wins on HP (not a huge thing for me until someone convinces me otherwise) and weight and has larger wheels as I recall.....but is more expensive at the moment and the dealer is quite a bit farther away. Also, the Kioti felt a bit smoother and more refined. The TYM guy actually mentioned his machine is very stiff in the beginning but it loosens up with use. Do the TYM owners here have this experience? Any Kioti guys feel like their machines loosened up too much and feel sloppy? I’m struggling to put some light between them so any help is appreciated.

 

[ericm979]

The tasks I do with my tractor include loader and grapple work, mowing, moving dirt with a box blade, running a backhoe, and powering a PTO chipper. The only task where I need more than 37hp is the chipper when I'm chipping larger material.

 

[CoyPatton]

I've heard people on the forum say using R1s with heavy loader work can be a problem. Most of what I'll be doing is brush piles, but I do expect to pick up the occasional heavy log or rock.....would the R1s be a bad choice for uneven ground and loads like that? Any experience with that?

Wider tires such as R4’s compared to R1’s spread out the weight to ground ratio this does not allow the machine to handle more weight. It can add to the stability some. In order to offset some weight from the front axle to the rear axle (the designed heavy load carrying axle of tractors you need ballast. While filled tires are great for added traction (like wheel weights) weight/ballast further behind the axle offsets the out front weight.
Check your owners manual for needed ballast and go with that recommendation. The engineers have factored that transfer of weight into the recommendation.
Tire traction even in muddy woods can be assisted by chains on R4’s. Chains will be rough on solid surfaces including pack ground, but so are R1’s.

 

[rScotty]

I can't wait to see what you end up with.

Here are a couple of things I think all the tractor old timers will agree on.

A smooth-running engine, easy to get on/off, comfortable seating, quiet transmission, and comfortable controls all turn out to be are way more important than you think at first. No matter what the salesman says, these are all things that rarely change with time.

About HP difference - I doubt you will notice a couple of HP more or less. You might notice 5 hp, and you WILL notice a ten HP difference.

Remember that more gears are more useful than more HP.

After using R1s for years, we recently (15 years ago) switched to R4s when buying our present machines - this after flirting with turf tires (R3) on a couple of tractors.
I now prefer the R4s - but it really depends on your soil. If you have sticky wet mud or you plan to do a lot of plowing - then go with the R1s. If your soil is more sandy and better drained or compacted.... and especially if loader work in the woods is what you do more than plowing, then I think you will find the R4s work better. But don't let the tires change your mind from your favorite tractor. Either tire will work.
Stick with your choice, changing tire types usually requires changing wheels and is expensive.

Oddly enough, we had to use chains a lot with our R1s in deep snow. So we bought chains to fit our R4s and thus far (15 years) have never used those chains. I would have thought it would be the other way around. But a lot depends on the changing weather.

If you have a few hundred bucks left in the budget - not enough for an implement, but want to do something for the tractor... consider wheel weights instead of filling the tires. Or a canopy.

About implements - for most any implement that you drag through the dirt, a used one will work as good as a new one.
Lots of adjustments for tilt, angle, and offset are good on any back blade - as are gauge wheels and end caps.

Good luck,
rScotty

 

[ripHST]

The tasks I do with my tractor include loader and grapple work, mowing, moving dirt with a box blade, running a backhoe, and powering a PTO chipper. The only task where I need more than 37hp is the chipper when I'm chipping larger material.

good to know....and it confirms my suspicion that most of the work I have planned won't put a huge demand on the HP of the tractor. have some HP in reserve would be nice....just not sure yet how much it'll be worth to me if I have to give up other things.

Wider tires such as R4’s compared to R1’s spread out the weight to ground ratio this does not allow the machine to handle more weight. It can add to the stability some. In order to offset some weight from the front axle to the rear axle (the designed heavy load carrying axle of tractors you need ballast. While filled tires are great for added traction (like wheel weights) weight/ballast further behind the axle offsets the out front weight.
Check your owners manual for needed ballast and go with that recommendation. The engineers have factored that transfer of weight into the recommendation.
Tire traction even in muddy woods can be assisted by chains on R4’s. Chains will be rough on solid surfaces including pack ground, but so are R1’s.

Just to be clear...I was referring to some instances where people were saying your could roll off the bead with an R1 while doing heavy loader work if you weren't careful. I was thinking that working in the woods wood probably exacerbate this problem...if it exists. It's probably a moot point thought as I'll likely go with R14s. Good advice on checking manufacturers recommendations for weight distribution. I did download the T474 manual and there wasn't much on this topic...I was a little surprised. I haven't been able to find the Kioti manual yet for download.

Regarding chains.....I'm not sure that'll be an option for me. I plan to store in my garage and won't want to run chains over the concrete. Honestly, the more I think about it and get feedback from you and others, I don't think traction is going to be a huge issue. I'll have the luxury of waiting for the ground to dry up in most cases and there only a couple of spots that stay wet. I suspect the R14s will do me fine. Plus info is thin on these so I think I owe it to the forum to give them a go and report my findings.

 

[ripHST]

lots of good info in there rScotty....thanks for taking the time.

A smooth-running engine, easy to get on/off, comfortable seating, quiet transmission, and comfortable controls all turn out to be are way more important than you think at first. No matter what the salesman says, these are all things that rarely change with time.

The T474 was very stiff on the controls (range is mainly what I remember). He had me goose the hydrostat forward pedal to get it to move. It would not move without doing that most of the time. He told me that's normal and that it loosens up with use. Note that the "salesman" was actually the Service Manager, so this gave me some confidence at the time.

The Kioti layout was far better for me....loader handle was right where I wanted it to be....it doesn't have the split brake, but the pedal was in a more logical place for a novice like me (right side, to the left of the "go" pedal).......all the controls were smooth.....overall felt good. Not that the TYM was bad, but the loader position wasn't the best (but to be honest, I forgot all about it when I started operating it) and the left side brake would take some getting used to. The Kioti just seemed like more thought went into the operators station than others I've looked at (TYM, Kubota, Mahindra).

About HP difference - I doubt you will notice a couple of HP more or less. You might notice 5 hp, and you WILL notice a ten HP difference.

yeah, 12 HP difference. nothing to sneeze at. I'm not sure I'll need it as much as the other things in my application (6" more ground clearance, tighter turning radius....favors the Kioti). The weight is also higher for the TYM. hmmm.

I now prefer the R4s - but it really depends on your soil. If you have sticky wet mud or you plan to do a lot of plowing - then go with the R1s. If your soil is more sandy and better drained or compacted.... and especially if loader work in the woods is what you do more than plowing, then I think you will find the R4s work better. But don't let the tires change your mind from your favorite tractor. Either tire will work.
Stick with your choice, changing tire types usually requires changing wheels and is expensive.

I think I'll end up with the R14s. Any sense for what the R4s offer that the R14s will not?

If you have a few hundred bucks left in the budget - not enough for an implement, but want to do something for the tractor... consider wheel weights instead of filling the tires. Or a canopy.

you got me thinking on the wheel weights. do you know of a good source? I did a quick search and the companies that came up didn't seem to list either of the models I'm looking at. I do like the idea of being able to take them off and be able to get the wheel off for service. cost is quite a bit more though, correct?

Interesting that you mention a canopy. over the weekend I posted a question on Tractor Mike's website about the canopy he offers there. I was hoping to find something heavy duty enough to protect from falling branches since I'll be working in the woods mostly.

 

[tblakemore]

I'm in a similar boat as you with about 30 acres of woods, land / property management and a long driveway (finally looking to buy a new tractor). I'm actually not to far away from you in the fingerlakes and have been thinking about how best to maximize my money as I buy a tractor. If you haven't seen this, you should check this guy's (Sawing with Sandy) reviews out (he owns a 2012 kioti DK40) and after watching his video's and how he uses his tractor, I'm leaning toward a similar sized kioti with a cab. (but I have only just started to look in earnest)

Here's the video where he compares (Kioti, John Deere, Kubota, New Holland, Case IH, Massey Ferguson, Mahindra)

and most important (for me) he put together a spreadsheet which has all the specs there so you can see an apples to apples (so to speak) comparison which has been quite helpful and saved me some keyboard time.

35hp Compact Tractor Comparison .xlsx

drive.google.com

Looking forward to hearing what you end up with, good luck!

-T

 

[jjp8182]

... you got me thinking on the wheel weights. do you know of a good source? I did a quick search and the companies that came up didn't seem to list either of the models I'm looking at. I do like the idea of being able to take them off and be able to get the wheel off for service. cost is quite a bit more though, correct?

...

Depending on the construction of the wheel the wheel weights wouldn't need to come off in order to get the wheel off.

For example this picture of when I installed the wheel weights on mine:

The three rings of fasteners (in order from inside to out) serve to:
1) hold the entire wheel assembly to the tractor
2) hold the wheel weights on the tractor (which btw were very tiring to install manually ....since it involved running nuts down ~12ft of threading given 2 sides, 6 bolts each about a foot long)
3) hold the rim & tire to the central hub

Fully installed it looks like this:

Which still permits access to all the fasteners with an appropriate extension for a torque/impact/ratchet wrenches.

BTW if you don't already own those tools you'll likely need to buy them ..... or expand upon them as most compact tractors will have some rather large fasteners on them (compared to cars & pickup trucks). The most frequently used sockets (on my tractor) are 22mm and 24mm for the re-tightening of the wheel & loader fasteners per scheduled maintenance requirements ....and until I had the tractor sockets in that size range weren't something I generally needed - much less routinely used.

Wheel weights will cost more (was about $1/pound) than filling with fluid. However, depending what fluids are available in your area the price advantages of the fluids may be outweighed by the other disadvantages of the particular fluids. Part of the reason I went with wheel weights is I didn't want to run the risk of having a fluid that was either corrosive or toxic to animals in my tires given I occasionally share some areas with some very expensive animals that aren't mine .....and the more bio-friendly liquids (Rim Guard, Bio ballast) weren't as readily available in my area at the time.

Hopefully it won't throw too much of wrench into your purchasing plans, but it can also be worth looking at some of the "bells & whistles" between the different brands as some of them can make a difference in productivity or how additional functions are added (if at all) at a later date. for example things like rear-remotes for controlling additional hydraulic functions; things like top & tilt kits for the 3pt linkage, blade angle, roll, and offset on rear blades, rotation and deflection on snowblowers, etc.

Ultimately, it's unlikely to find a single tractor that will do everything you want/need, so the trick for someone buying a single tractor is to determine which provides "enough" of what you need/want.

 

[ripHST]

I'm in a similar boat as you with about 30 acres of woods, land / property management and a long driveway (finally looking to buy a new tractor). I'm actually not to far away from you in the fingerlakes and have been thinking about how best to maximize my money as I buy a tractor. If you haven't seen this, you should check this guy's (Sawing with Sandy) reviews out (he owns a 2012 kioti DK40) and after watching his video's and how he uses his tractor, I'm leaning toward a similar sized kioti with a cab. (but I have only just started to look in earnest)

Here's the video where he compares (Kioti, John Deere, Kubota, New Holland, Case IH, Massey Ferguson, Mahindra)

and most important (for me) he put together a spreadsheet which has all the specs there so you can see an apples to apples (so to speak) comparison which has been quite helpful and saved me some keyboard time.

35hp Compact Tractor Comparison .xlsx

drive.google.com

Looking forward to hearing what you end up with, good luck!

-T

I did see his content....good stuff. Unfortunately, I had my spreadsheet mostly done by the time I saw his....it was still helpful. Where are you located if you don't mind my asking? Or which lake if you don't want to get too specific?