Used Value vs Age

[MHarryE]

I've read posts that pre-Tier4 tractors are valued higher than the newer equipment that is Tier 4 compliant. Today in one of my industry publications I got mid-year results of equipment based on age. They only broke down 3 segments and I selected dozer as most equivalent to tractors (the other groups were combines and heavy duty trucks. I can't bring in the charts but they show 5 - 10 year old equipment being a straight line - used price holding its own as a percentage of purchase price over the past 10 years. Newer used (0 - 5 years) has shot up in value by 21% over the past 2 years (16.3% improvement year to year showing most of the gain has been in the past year). So far as heavy duty trucks and construction equipment, new products withs stricter emissions limits do not appear to affect resale failure. Is it possible that high resale values are driven by low dealer inventory levels and emissions equipment is considered a non-factor to the prime users?

U.S. Used Heavy-Duty Construction Equipment​

• The Sandhills Auction EVI for dozers increased to 16.3% YOY in May (up from 11.7% in April), while the category’s Asking EVI showed a 7.7% YOY climb (up from 5.7%).
• Asking values in the 0- to 5-year age group within the dozer market were up 23.1% YOY, with inventory levels within this age group 29% YOY lower than in May 2020. The 5- to 10-year age group managed a 1.7% gain, and the 10- to 25-year age group showed a rise of 6.4% YOY. As with the truck market, late-model equipment value improvements outpace the other age groups.

 

[Sonny580]

No body wants that emission crap! --- AND I dont blame them , so older equipment is at a top dollar level just for that reason!

 

[Cougsfan]

No body wants that emission crap! --- AND I dont blame them , so older equipment is at a top dollar level just for that reason!

I think Harry is saying that isn't really the case. I am not a fan of numerous headaches caused by the new pollution equipment either, But I don't think it is as much of a deterrent as many believe it is. To me, the over computerizing of new tractors is an even bigger long term reliability issue. but I suspect that too isn't that much of a deterrent as the more conservative of us think.

Probably, people think old tractors are more likely to have reliability problems than a new tractor, which may not necessarily be true.

It isn't that I am against computers or pollution control, but they sure need to get better at implementing those things.

 

[TractorGuy]

I know where this conversation will lead so I will be the one to go down the rabbit hole.

Some government regulations are a necessary evel. That said, it always feels like they went too far when it effects usability of something YOU want. Sometimes technology will catch up to the requirements and you end up with a better machine because of it. Look at how reliable cars have become and how well they run compared to the early days of emission controls. Not sure if this will be the case for diesel emissions. Time will tell.

I am about to buy a good used washer and dryer. New washing machines were regulated to a max of 26 gallons of water and it doesn't cover the load. Reviews on new ones are all over the place but quite a few complain of clothes not getting clean. Complaints are such that Home Depot lists all new washers and dryers as NON-RETURNABLE. Apparently you can spring for a commercial unit that escapes the regulation at near double the price of a consumer model. BUT they don't sell them in any of the normal consumer stores.

I want a mid size cab tractor one of these days. I will probably have to pay near new price to get a pre emission model or suck it up and buy a new one with lots of electronics and pauses in use while it regenerates. Not in my budget either way right now so I will cross that road when I get to it. Finding a good pre emission model is becoming more and more impossible. People are not selling them and if they do they fetch a premium price.

 

[kneedeep]

so.....
What is your question?

 

[Daniel weston]

What is a used jinma 284 worth with a bucket on front.

 

[AndyMA]

Having had both pre and post emission tractors, I personally don't see al the negatives about the tractors with emission systems.

A few folks on this forum have a very different opinion.

We need to do all we can to slow climate change and cut emissions

Andy

 

[PuffyC]

People used to say the same thing when emission controls started showing up on cars. IMO the whole ’pre-emissions stuff is worth more’ is half wives tale and half wishful thinking by the folks who hate change and/or the gov’t.

 

[fried1765]

Having had both pre and post emission tractors, I personally don't see al the negatives about the tractors with emission systems.

A few folks on this forum have a very different opinion.

We need to do all we can to slow climate change and cut emissions

Andy

"We need to do all we can to slow climate change and cut emissions"

Do the Chinese, Indians, Russians, etc. feel this way too, or if just "we" do it, the problem will be solved?
The others don't give a hoot about what "we" do!

 

[PuffyC]

"We need to do all we can to slow climate change and cut emissions"

Do the Chinese, Indians, Russians, etc. feel this way too, or if "we" just do it, the problem will be solved?
They don't give a hoot about what "we" do!

You should never let the irresponsibility of your neighbor keep you from doing what’s right. The United States is a leader, not a follower, and the best leader is one who leads by example.

 

[fried1765]

You should never let the irresponsibility of your neighbor keep you from doing what’s right. The United States is a leader, not a follower, and the best leader is one who leads by example.

Got it!
We should choke our US economy, so that we can virtue signal the remainder of the world!

 

[Hay Dude]

You should never let the irresponsibility of your neighbor keep you from doing what’s right. The United States is a leader, not a follower, and the best leader is one who leads by example.

That statement you make allows the decision makers of other countries to run our domestic economy out of business! You can believe you are a “leader”, but it’s just fools gold if no other countries follow!
You will lead yourself into national bankruptcy.

 

[espacef1fan]

Look this emissions stuff is in the long run, a good thing.

Everyone should be able to agree cleaner air is better.

In today’s world lower emissions almost always correlated to more efficiency as well. We all like saving money on diesel right?

I care less about the smell as I am waiting for delivery of my cabbed Massey 2850M, but you are lying if you say it was healthier for you to breathe what my 1975 JD 1120 spewed in my face everytime I ran it.

It’s also well understood what keeps these systems healthy now so ownership costs shouldn’t be too bad, either.

 

[Hay Dude]

Look this emissions stuff is in the long run, a good thing.

Everyone should be able to agree cleaner air is better.

In today’s world lower emissions almost always correlated to more efficiency as well. We all like saving money on diesel right?

I care less about the smell as I am waiting for delivery of my cabbed Massey 2850M, but you are lying if you say it was healthier for you to breathe what my 1975 JD 1120 spewed in my face everytime I ran it.

It’s also well understood what keeps these systems healthy now so ownership costs shouldn’t be too bad, either.

Ummmm, no.
Emissions equipment like a DPF actually causes MORE diesel fuel to be consumed, so the efficiency is lower.
Yes clean air is great, but why pick on the little guy? Why make us pay $5,000 extra on a tractor or truck for crap emissions equipment that shortens the life of the vehicle, when there are bigger polluters out there.

 

[espacef1fan]

Ummmm, no.
Emissions equipment like a DPF actually causes MORE diesel fuel to be consumed, so the efficiency is lower.
Yes clean air is great, but why pick on the little guy? Why make us pay $5,000 extra on a tractor or truck for crap emissions equipment that shortens the life of the vehicle, when there are bigger polluters out there.

How much less efficient? Got some numbers/data specific to tractors?

 

[ptsg]

How much less efficient? Got some numbers/data specific to tractors?

I don't have numbers for tractors but my dad's SUV goes straight from 40 MPG to 26 MPG during a regen. And I bet it would easily do 43/44 MPG without all the emissions on it.

On tractors, the fact you need to run the engine at least above 2000 RPM to keep the DPF or DOC happy, says a lot about how efficient these emission systems are. Basically forcing you to operate at wide open when something like 1200 to 1500 RPM would be plenty using like 1/4 of the fuel.

 

[Doughknob]

You will lead yourself into national bankruptcy.

Not true

 

[fried1765]

I don't have numbers for tractors but my dad's SUV goes straight from 40 MPG to 26 MPG during a regen. And I bet it would easily do 43/44 MPG without all the emissions on it.

On tractors, the fact you need to run the engine at least above 2000 RPM to keep the DPF or DOC happy, says a lot about how efficient these emission systems are. Basically forcing you to operate at wide open when something like 1200 to 1500 RPM would be plenty using like 1/4 of the fuel.

I rarely run my 1989 Ford 1920 at more than 1200 to 1500 RPM.

 

[rScotty]

I rarely run my 1989 Ford 1920 at more than 1200 to 1500 RPM.

I run my pre-emissions Kubota in that same RPM range.

As far as regens go, I fail to understand how storing the soot so that it can all be blown out at once during a regen makes any difference to total pollution.

 

[espacef1fan]

I run my pre-emissions Kubota in that same RPM range.

As far as regens go, I fail to understand how storing the soot so that it can all be blown out at once during a regen makes any difference to total pollution.

It doesn’t store the soot.

It catches the soot and waits for EGTs to get high enough to convert it into less harmful gases .