Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow.

[Gale Hawkins]

Thanks for that awesome article. I was surprised that she referred to Eli Musk by his new corporate title. Sounds like Tesla has some work to do before they send the Cyber truck to Mars.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

Schlumberger New Energy and Panasonic Energy of North America Announce Strategic Collaboration on New Battery-Grade Lithium Production Process | Schlumberger

It is good to read the old
oil service industry is moving to producing solutions for EV batteries.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

Toyota is quietly pushing Congress to slow the shift to electric vehicles

This is rather telling about EV readiness.

 

[3930dave]

How do we think those EV batteries will hold up at -58F?

Here's a nice story about a guy that took his Tesla from New York to Vermont in winter. He admits, he made some mistakes.

Tesla Has A Temperature Problem

Battery experts confirm it, and the driving public needs to understand it.

www.forbes.com

Old story up here, but often not widely known amongst non-techical people, before they buy an EV.

I don't do the mega-Winter commutes I used to, but if I still did, present EVs would be off the table for that task.

One thing odd with that story....Supercharger locations. I've never looked, but I can't imagine Tesla doesn't have every Supercharger on the planet listed on their site.

Rgds, D.

 

[Torvy]

The bias is that 100% EV is 'ahead' and less than that is 'behind'. The fact is that Toyota's Prime line (Prius and Rav4 at the moment) are far superior overall to any EV for most uses. An EV is only useful if you are a commuter. Anyone who travels more than about 200 miles at any time would be grossly inconvenienced by an EV. Even the fast charging stations take way too long.

Tomorrow, I am driving our Prius Prime 850 or so miles north to visit my elderly parents. I will need about 12 gallons of gas and no prolonged stops unless we want a break from driving. If I was driving an EV, I would need to stop for a couple of hours 2 or 3 times at a minimum. This would turn my 12.5 hour drive into 16-18 hour marathon. Most likely, it would mean I would need to stay in a hotel along the way, eat more meals out and...wait for it...use more power and a ultimately contribute more total CO2 to the environment than the 12 gallons of gas I will use.

Toyota is trying to slow the EV roll precisely because they are ahead on better alternatives and when the government starts trying to decide what is better in a fluid situation, they tend to make really bad decisions that benefit their constituents or donors rather than the country as a whole.

Sidebar - to those advocating a flat tax...a national sales tax makes more sense. Sales taxes are harder to avoid so everyone pays. Income taxes are only paid by people who make money legally. Don't worry about those who are 'poor'. As a benevolent society, we have programs for those people. Who cares if they pay in sales tax along the way, they will get back many times more than that in government payments. Some of our states with the best state government budgets (liberal and conservative) are among the handful who do not tax incomes. Of course, the only way you get that solution is by amendment to abolish the income tax...wishful thinking.

 

[3930dave]

This would turn my 12.5 hour drive into 16-18 hour marathon.

Toyota is trying to slow the EV roll precisely because they are ahead on better alternatives and when the government starts trying to decide what is better in a fluid situation, they tend to make really bad decisions that benefit their constituents or donors rather than the country as a whole.

Eggs, meet Basket......

Many people would just fly that distance, and not consider anything else. While not a nervous flyer, I too value being able to make long drives at my discretion and preference.

Your 16-18 hours might be a little light. In some areas, lining up for chargers already happens on a regular day, let alone a holiday weekend.

While I want to see EVs continue to progress in technology and market-share, cramming all those eggs into one basket will be sub-optimal IMO.

Rgds, D.

 

[Egon]

I haven’t got a clue On how it’s figured but suspect it may involve tax returns!

 

[Hay Dude]

The bias is that 100% EV is 'ahead' and less than that is 'behind'. The fact is that Toyota's Prime line (Prius and Rav4 at the moment) are far superior overall to any EV for most uses. An EV is only useful if you are a commuter. Anyone who travels more than about 200 miles at any time would be grossly inconvenienced by an EV. Even the fast charging stations take way too long.

Tomorrow, I am driving our Prius Prime 850 or so miles north to visit my elderly parents. I will need about 12 gallons of gas and no prolonged stops unless we want a break from driving. If I was driving an EV, I would need to stop for a couple of hours 2 or 3 times at a minimum. This would turn my 12.5 hour drive into 16-18 hour marathon. Most likely, it would mean I would need to stay in a hotel along the way, eat more meals out and...wait for it...use more power and a ultimately contribute more total CO2 to the environment than the 12 gallons of gas I will use.

Toyota is trying to slow the EV roll precisely because they are ahead on better alternatives and when the government starts trying to decide what is better in a fluid situation, they tend to make really bad decisions that benefit their constituents or donors rather than the country as a whole.

Sidebar - to those advocating a flat tax...a national sales tax makes more sense. Sales taxes are harder to avoid so everyone pays. Income taxes are only paid by people who make money legally. Don't worry about those who are 'poor'. As a benevolent society, we have programs for those people. Who cares if they pay in sales tax along the way, they will get back many times more than that in government payments. Some of our states with the best state government budgets (liberal and conservative) are among the handful who do not tax incomes. Of course, the only way you get that solution is by amendment to abolish the income tax...wishful thinking.

Would your national sales tax include “used” goods?
I can afford many new big ticket items, so if used isnt taxed…..
I’M IN!

 

[Jchonline]

How do we think those EV batteries will hold up at -58F?

Here's a nice story about a guy that took his Tesla from New York to Vermont in winter. He admits, he made some mistakes.

Tesla Has A Temperature Problem

Battery experts confirm it, and the driving public needs to understand it.

www.forbes.com

Yes at around 40 deg F you double the discharge rate…so you step in the vehicle and your capacity reduced by 1/2. it just gets worse from there. I have LFP batteries for my house and they are much more stable than LiCo types..but still suffer from temperature issues. I have to climate control the area they are in to keep it around 50F in Winter (summer not an issue where I am).

EVs of today have a very narrow use case…but for that use case they are fine (moderate weather, moderate daily use).

 

[Jchonline]

One thing odd with that story....Supercharger locations. I've never looked, but I can't imagine Tesla doesn't have every Supercharger on the planet listed on their site.

Rgds, D.

No they do a pretty good job of listing them all. Supercharger stations are proprietary to Tesla and only work on Tesla vehicles. Apparently there are no charging adapter standards (the plug or the Voltage/Amps) so its the Wild West. Perhaps one place a government mandated standard would benefit us.