Surprised by need for rear ballast with L 4060 in this situation

[sea2summit]

That would only be right if the loader wasn’t installed. But nobody cares about the front axel weight without a loader. Regardless of actual weight or distance putting a loader on and putting a load in front of the loader increases the length by a lot and increased length makes for a larger ratio and a larger ratio means every pound you put on the back lifts the front by a smaller percentage.

Totally false.

 

[4570Man]

We’re using your example. A three foot board, a pencil at 1’ and 2’ I’m just saying eh pencils weigh a pound. So out a pound on one end of the board. What are the weights on each pencil if you put them on a scale?

Now I’m lost. The pencils were serving as axels. They aren’t weights.

 

[sea2summit]

Now I’m lost. The pencils were serving as axels. They aren’t weights.

That’s fine, I’m adding ballast to the tires. What would the weights of the axles now be on a scale?

 

[4570Man]

Totally false.

So you think of you put a 1000 pound ballast box on a tractor that didn’t have a loader and it lightened the front axel by 300 pounds you could install the loader with pallet forks stacked with plywood, weighed the front axel and then dropped the box it would still weigh 300 pounds more than before you dropped the box?

 

[4570Man]

That’s fine, I’m adding ballast to the tires. What would the weights of the axles now be on a scale?

Ballasted tires doesn’t change anything. Or ballasted pencils. Well if you’re counting the weight of the pencil which I wasn’t previously doing it would be the weight of the pencil heavier.

 

[sea2summit]

So you think of you put a 1000 pound ballast box on a tractor that didn’t have a loader and it lightened the front axel by 300 pounds you could install the loader with pallet forks stacked with plywood, weighed the front axel and then dropped the box it would still weigh 300 pounds more than before you dropped the box?

If you had the loader on and your ballast box made the front axle 300 lbs lighter then you picked up 1,000 pounds the front axle would be 300 lbs lighter than if you did not have the ballast box.

 

[sea2summit]

Ballasted tires doesn’t change anything. Or ballasted pencils. Well if you’re counting the weight of the pencil which I wasn’t previously doing it would be the weight of the pencil heavier.

So what would the scales say the weight at each axle is assuming the total weight is 3 lbs?

 

[4570Man]

If you had the loader on and your ballast box made the front axle 300 lbs lighter then you picked up 1,000 pounds the front axle would be 300 lbs lighter than if you did not have the ballast box.

I did a small scale test with a toy loader thar actually proved this theory correct. The empty loader weighed 490 grams so I decided five bullets with a combined weight of 135 grams was a proportionally pretty good counter weight. For the first test I removed the loader ( the loader attachment from the loader ) zeroed the scale and dropped the counter weight in the back. It lightened the axel by 64 grams. Then I put the loader back on and then repeated the test. It lightened the axel by 63 grams. Then I put 5 bullets in the loader bucket and repeated the test. This time it lightened it 67 grams. Such small differences was probably caused by inaccuracies in the scale or stacking the counter weight in the box a little differently. But that’s only a difference of 1/11 of the total weight. 1/11th probably isn’t going to make the difference in busting the axel or not.

 

[JWR]

If you had the loader on and your ballast box made the front axle 300 lbs lighter [and] then you picked up 1,000 pounds [on the rear] the front axle would be 300 lbs lighter [meaning less loaded] than if you did not have the ballast box [regardless of whether the loader was there or not.].

Exactly. True. Several people have wound themselves around the axle here, so to speak, over a very simple Statics problem.

Mr 4570man, sea2 is just saying this: When you put some ballast out on a lever off the rear end you will unload the front axle by an easy to calulate amount. PERIOD. THE END. Think on that and let it sink in. Has utterly nothing to do with the loader, whether a loader exists or any of the other tangents folks have gone off on here.

 

[sea2summit]

I did a small scale test with a toy loader thar actually proved this theory correct. The empty loader weighed 490 grams so I decided five bullets with a combined weight of 135 grams was a proportionally pretty good counter weight. For the first test I removed the loader ( the loader attachment from the loader ) zeroed the scale and dropped the counter weight in the back. It lightened the axel by 64 grams. Then I put the loader back on and then repeated the test. It lightened the axel by 63 grams. Then I put 5 bullets in the loader bucket and repeated the test. This time it lightened it 67 grams. Such small differences was probably caused by inaccuracies in the scale or stacking the counter weight in the box a little differently. But that’s only a difference of 1/11 of the total weight. 1/11th probably isn’t going to make the difference in busting the axel or not. View attachment 708914

But every time the front axle was lighter by ~60 grams. You’re making my point.